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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 12:10PM
#11
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Nothing is more irritating than flipping through old D&D books that are arranged by level to find a spell when the only thing you are sure about is the name of the spell.
How about flipping through old D&D books that are arranged alphabetically to find a spell when the only thing you're sure about is that you want a level X {school} spell?
Sounds like what you need is an index. Have the actual spell list be arranged by school and level or whatever else makes the most sense, and then have an alphabetical index for quick reference when you know the name already. It's the best of both worlds.
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 12:33PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2007
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Nothing is more irritating than flipping through old D&D books that are arranged by level to find a spell when the only thing you are sure about is the name of the spell.
How about flipping through old D&D books that are arranged alphabetically to find a spell when the only thing you're sure about is that you want a level X {school} spell?
Sounds like what you need is an index. Have the actual spell list be arranged by school and level or whatever else makes the most sense, and then have an alphabetical index for quick reference when you know the name already. It's the best of both worlds.
I think it makes more sense to have the spell descriptions alphabetical for reference, such as when a monster uses one as a spell-like ability, to allow for diving right into the spell chapter and knowing where to go rather than having to use an index (which takes me a bit longer).
Especially because it is extremely easy to look up spells by level and school on a Spell List by School sort of list - which Next could easily follow all D&D prior to 4e in having.
It actually makes finding each spell that fits your criteria easier - especially if the list that mentions which spells you are able to cast is sorted first by level, then by school, then alphabetically (as 3.x had them for classes that cared about spell school) and mentions the page number.
Careful, man. That much logic might be illegal on the internet. - Salla
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 12:40PM
#13
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Nothing is more irritating than flipping through old D&D books that are arranged by level to find a spell when the only thing you are sure about is the name of the spell.
How about flipping through old D&D books that are arranged alphabetically to find a spell when the only thing you're sure about is that you want a level X {school} spell?
Sounds like what you need is an index. Have the actual spell list be arranged by school and level or whatever else makes the most sense, and then have an alphabetical index for quick reference when you know the name already. It's the best of both worlds.
An extra index or 2 would be nice.
Or an excell spread sheet where you can just sort and search....
But you'd still want a "take these spells (unless you dont' want to)" in each tradition.
guides
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my builds
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 12:42PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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You're never going to have a perfect layout for spells. Period. People are always going to have individual goals when they crack open the spells section. Sometimes it's finding info on one particular spell, sometimes it's browsing for spells of a given level, sometimes you care more about the schools. The problem is that those conditions and priorities are always changing, and there's no way to address them all at once. Someone building a specialist wizard may not give a crap about anything other than one particular school, but that doesn't mean that we should arrange things by school first, because that becomes problematic for the people wanting to browse all of the Level X spells when picking which spell their wizard should learn. The way it's been done before works well. The section that details spell info should be arranged alphabetically, so that if you're looking for a particular spell that you already know the name of then you can go right to it. Another section should have the lists by class, without any detail, just the name, school, and level. Those sections should be arranged by level, and then within each level be grouped by school, rather than alphabetically. Examle: d20 SRD. www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/sorcererWi...
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 12:48PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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The real key is to keep the core spell list to a reasonable size. Useless bloat will kill any attempts at organization. I'd rather not see 500+ spells with lots near-duplicates based on class, damage type, casting style, et al.
Magic Dual Color Test
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 1:33PM
#16
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The real key is to keep the core spell list to a reasonable size. Useless bloat will kill any attempts at organization. I'd rather not see 500+ spells with lots near-duplicates based on class, damage type, casting style, et al.
That's why i want to see more spells scale.
I mean, we have 5 (?) cure x wound spells. We could have 1.
Cure: Target regains 2d6 hit points.
Special: You can cast this spell with a higher level slot. Increase the amount healed by 1d6 per slot level.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 1:35PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Yeah...that's a very good idea.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 1:41PM
#18
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I think this would be a really easy thing to impliment, and wouldn't change much. I think it would be a neat idea.
I think, however, the reason they haven't is because they don't want to lead people, who do not know otherwise, to think that these are the only spells they can prepare.
My two copper.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 1:50PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Nov 21, 2009
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The only way to meet everyone's sorting priorities with an online tool, such as DDI's Compendium or the Pathfinder SRD. This takes care of any quick-reference or look-up needs. So the question becomes, what is the best way to present information in the book? Both in terms of the class and build choices and the actual spell list?
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 1:54PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Well, yes, a Compendium of some sort is absolutely vital, but it also doesn't remove the need to print the spells in a book, and so we do have to ask that question, and honestly I think the answer is already there: to do it in the ways that have worked before.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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