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I like the idea of fighters being able to learn maneuvers as they find teachers, tomes, etc. - independant of level.  In the abstract.

That said - I would expect to see some limitations on the idea. 


First, let's talk Wizards.
I think that Wizards should have some limitations on how many spells they can know (as in days of old).    Being able to cast every spell really shouldn't be a viable goal of any wizard.
I also think that Wizards should have a chance to fail to learn a new spell they found (also as in days of old).  Learning magic is tough and shouldn't be guaranteed - and should be based on Intelligence.

Now, Fighters (and other maneuver users)
I think that martial classes should have some limitations on how many maneuvers they can know.
I also think that martial classes should have a chance to fail to learn a new maneuver.

Bottom Line:  I don't understand why (aside from an attempt to spread a very limited resource - the few maneuvers they have at present - over a wide range of fighting-styles and levels) they don't just allow the fighter to pick a new maneuver every other level (or the like).    More maneuvers does not make the fighter that much more powerful, it makes him more diverse. And more options, more diversity and more interesting things to do seem to be what people are always asking for in the Fighter.

Instead - the approach they are taking has a catch 22 in that they must make sure that all maneuvers are awesome, because that may be the only new toy the fighter gets to play with for the next four levels.  If they instead tripled the number of maneuvers - even if some of those are overly specialized and not generally useful enough to be a major class feature, but are useful to particular builds or particular approaches (for example - a weapon specific maneuver) - they could allow the players to pick their maneuvers from this wider pool; and pick more often.  And these more specialized, less generally useful maneuvers would still have a place for some characters and would be worth including as an option.


To put this another way - the maneuver design space is potentially huge and would seem to be where many of the combat feats from 3.x should probably end up (although rewritten to make their power level dependant upon the use of expertise dice).    I'd like to see this design space used and I'd like to see fighters end up with a model simlar to that of the wizard where the power is depenant upon level/ expertise dice and the versatility is dependant upon the campaign/DM (finding scrolls/trainers) with a minimum guaranteed set of options (some spells/maneuvers gained upon level-up).

Carl

Jan 8, 2013 -- 3:44PM, Lawolf wrote:

Jan 8, 2013 -- 3:11PM, SleepsInTraffic wrote:

Jan 8, 2013 -- 1:50PM, Dwarfslayer wrote:

If fighters had to prepare manuevers for the day like wizards, then I don't see any problem with it. Then you just change it from manuevers known to manuevers prepared. If fighters have access to every manuever they know, then that could get problematic if you can learn them.

I know I am going to hate my self for this one...

Stances

takes an action to switch stances and changes your maneuver list as you do it.  Less of an assuming a specific stance type deal (though specific maneuvers that switch your stance automatically might be coolish) more that you shift stance and get to reshuffle your available maneuvers.

This would be book keeping intensive and fairly complex however.  Unless you were to have a number of standardized maneuver loadouts you could use.  the number of loadouts available increasing as you level. at that point it doesn't matter as much how many maneuvers you know because you can only have like 6 available for use at a time.

Not a full idea but a base for one, but undoubtedly never gunna happen except for home brewing.

That idea bears a remarkable resemblance to the WoW fighter.

Interesting...

Sadly I didn't even totally know that.  I mean I knew they had stances I just didn't know the stances changed what powers they could use.

I haven't played WoW in years and when I did I played mostly Warlocks and Rogues, and a Deathnight. (Played mostly vanilla and a little bit of wrath)

I'm just rereading / relistening to the Wheel of Time series and there is a lot of fighters and sword work in it, so the idea of changing stances to attain a new position in combat, and therfore opening up the usage of other maneuvers you couldn't previously pull off just kinda came off the tips of my fingers.  if it bears any resmblence it must have been that shred of memory from back in the day that influenced it.