Got a player who wants to eventually play a Dread Necromancer, but we're wondering in what kind of campaigns would you need to be in for you to gain any actual benefit from the class?
If I remember, the goal of the DN is lichdom. While there are good liches, I presume most that take this path are a bit more shady. Not to mention, I believe it might tie in taint (also from Heroes of Horror) as well, since it's dealing with corruptive necromantic powers. Also, what benefit will the character get from becoming a dread necromancer? Do they want to focus on necromantic specialty or even hope to achieve lichdom?
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They can match just about any party that doesnt have a good cleric or paladin in the party and if he is the type that wants a massive herd of undead minions behind him then you want it to be a small party that doesnt mind one player taking a 10 min turn hehe. Just be very careful of any undead type that can create spawn/minions.
If I remember, the goal of the DN is lichdom. While there are good liches, I presume most that take this path are a bit more shady. Not to mention, I believe it might tie in taint (also from Heroes of Horror) as well, since it's dealing with corruptive necromantic powers. Also, what benefit will the character get from becoming a dread necromancer? Do they want to focus on necromantic specialty or even hope to achieve lichdom?
A few points.
1) By this definition, the goal of the monk is to become an outsider. Unless you're starting at 20 that's probably not going to be part of the plan. 2) Dread necromancers must be nongood, so the baelnorn ('good lich') is already out of the question.
Kevin: ever played a beguiler (or to a lesser extent, a warmage)? Dread necromancers are the same sort of idea, attached to spells based around undeath and negative energy. Their class features allow them to be reasonably durable for a caster at low levels, which helps because another of their low-level strengths is a short-range fear aura. They all take the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat at level 1 unless they're already undead - this isn't actually negotiable. (That feat allows them to heal themselves to full at will using their Charnel Touch ability.) Also, Charnel Touch is a bit weird because, as written, it actually can augment other touch effects without costing an action on its own (it takes an action to use on its own, but if you're using another touch spell - and dread necros have a lot of those - you can add on Charnel Touch when you deliver it). For this reason, if you get a buff round, you will probably be casting Spectral Hand. As your levels increase, you get a few other difficult-to-obtain abilities, most dramatically the ability to grab a ghostly visage familiar (giving you a gaze attack and immunity to mind-affecting abilities at a surprisingly low level).
After you hit level 8, the class changes. It gets a dramatic increase in its ability to create and command undead creatures. Some people (such as FrankTrollman, who wrote the Dread Necromancer Handbook here) see this as being based off of caster level rather than class level, but I read it as working off of class level; confirm which it is before planning out your character. Either way, this ability is on par with Leadership in terms of how it changes the game. Expect a good dread necromancer to do whatever it takes to raise his undead command cap even higher, to work his minions crazy to get more onyx, and to seek out impossibly powerful creatures to turn into powerhouses (particularly if he gets a way to copy the Deathbound domain spells to turbocharge powerful undead, or if he asks to use any book that mentions Szass Tam in it) - seriously, think undead dragons here. (Not the best example but it gives you a sense of scale if all you thought he could command were humanoid zombies.) As a DM, carefully watch the HD of the creatures you send at the party - if they kill it, and it can be raised, chances are he'll do it.
At the really late levels the undeath command kind of dominates how you build them; I don't think anyone's designed a non-commander dread necromancer with lots of levels in the class. Still, they pack a few decent higher-level spells and get a lot of slots, so if you somehow go to a place where undead are wiped out instantly, he'll still be able to bring pain as a full, albeit narrowly-focused, spellcaster.
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I've always looked at the DN as an undead-based Thrallherd. After reading Tempest's post, it sounds like I was understating it.
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Got a player who wants to eventually play a Dread Necromancer, but we're wondering in what kind of campaigns would you need to be in for you to gain any actual benefit from the class?
well the dread necromancer is a boss class planted with some set of rules in a special campaign, as evil you can become an NPC if you dont are an undead or a evil outsider, then if your player going to be a standard race let him the same corruption penalties.
as normal he can become undead at level 20 but he need stay regulating her corruption until that level for dont become a NPC.
with this her character will stay more balanced vs the standards classes.
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well the dread necromancer is a boss class planted with some set of rules in a special campaign, as evil you can become an NPC if you dont are an undead or a evil outsider, then if your player going to be a standard race let him the same corruption penalties.
with this her character will stay more balanced vs the standards classes.
The Dread Necro is already balanced (note: I am not saying "well-balanced", just balanced - though, having not played one, it looks to me that it is in fact both). There are some cool things which can be done with it (the Tomb-Tainted Soul + Charnel Touch combo means free healing for you) and at low levels, the DR and other abilities are quite neat (and interesting option is to take Shape Soulmeld: Lifebond Vestments and Tomb-Tainted Soul. Then you have slightly more limited out-of-combat healing for the whole party, though it pales at higher levels). At higher levels it's just a Sorcerer with more spells, but also more limited spells, and some nice and flavourful abilities on top. It's no more powerful than the Beguiler, IMO.
They can match just about any party that doesnt have a good cleric or paladin in the party...
Depends exactly on the Cleric (or even Paladin), I would think. My new favourite deity is Wee Jas, who is a perfect model for a Dread Necro. She's LN (albeit with LE tendencies) and all about undead, but encourages her followers to operate within the law. I actually imagine the Church of Wee Jas operating an organ-donor-like system ("Are you planning on using that body after you die? No resurrection plans?"). Point is, if the people you animate are OK with it, even some good Clerics might accept that.
read the classes entry of HoH, the campaign are for good character and the dread necromancer is planned as a Boss class of the DM (best as normal because going to fight again a party), if you let use a character use a it then he recall the limitation rules of the class, the corruption as described in HoH if you dont cure your own corruption you will become a NPC only a undead of a evil outzider are free of this rule for it the lv 20 of the class transform you to a undead.
the book say to that if you party is a undead or evil-outsider party you can use redeemed score like the corruption score that let a balanceto the class.
remember that with the LM a first level character can have infinite cures with the charnel touch and the feat tomb-tainted soul.
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