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Agreed.

Monsters and NPCs need to be simpler than PCs, simply for the sake of the sanity of the DM.

Jan 6, 2013 -- 10:54PM, VB_Baysider wrote:

Jan 6, 2013 -- 7:04PM, EldradWolfsbane wrote:

Monsters don't need to be full characters.

Why a full page monster that is a complete character?

Base the saves/attacks/whatever on HD and simplify it.

Speaking as one of those hard-working DMs, I strongly disagree. I do like a streamlined stat block which is one really nice aspects of some of the more recent 4e monster books, *however* I also want all of those other details --  descriptions, combat tactics, information about the society/culture (if applicable), etc. The fluff is some of the best content in the older Monster Manuals (and the recent Nentir Vale supplement was one of the best monster supplements ever).

Give us both -- a compact stat block for easy referece during a combat, but a full page spread in the manuals with all kinds of mechanican details and background fluff.
 

i agree with you. i have been looking through and noticed i dont know what some of those creatures are.
a basic description at least would be nice

The monster entries need a decent description and a bit more fluff text, agreed.
However, not only do monsters not need a shorter stat block, they need to include additional details. 3E had it right: A combat-ready stat block and ability explanations (the late 3.5E layout, which was carried over in 4E, works better in this aspect), that also included enough details to permit a hard-working DM to personalize or improve the monster as needed (any DM who wants a ready-made stat block and cares little for anything beyond is hardly hard-working).
I've built all sorts of monsters in 3E: larger ankhegs (more HD), marilith swordsages, 30-HD balors, zombie hydras, you name it. So far, it has been the only edition where I could do so properly. 4E allowed it too, however it didn't feel as smooth and intuitive as in 3E. And it was impossible in 2E, because not enough stats were supplied for the monsters (they didn't even include ability scores, for christ's sake!).

No, I want monsters to have more detailed descriptions. What contributes to a monster's AC? How is its to-hit bonus calculated? What about save DCs? I want all that information, a decent description, an image if possible, and enough fluff text (ecology, habitat/society, etc.) to satisfy my players' Knowledge checks.

Try making an adventure with those complete stat blocks. Try a mega dungeon. With long stats it becomes work and not play.

I wrote a megadungeon's first two levels with 110 rooms average per level (About 4 sheets of graph paper per level) using Labyrinth Lord (A redbox clone) in less than two hours.

I later on tried to convert it to PFRPG for my players but it collapsed under the weight of the rules.

A megadungeon would take years to play through in 4e.

Before 3rd edition monsters were short and sweet and worked very well. 

Go try the old rules or their clones. In most cases they are free to download. OSRIC, Swords and WIzardry, Labyrinth Lord (with the Advance Edition Companion). They have some silly hold back rules but really fun games.

You don't need huge amounts of rules to cover everything as my 32 years of gaming has taught me.