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Flag Cryst January 6, 2013 6:35 PM PST
Hey Everyone!

I apologize if this has been posted before and for my ignorance on 3.5e.  Havent played it in YEARS.  My friends and I are having a more laid back campaign in the sense characters builds can be a little "not-serious" and I wanted to make...wait for it...

El Lobo! "Silvered Hands of the SouthWest!" The Masked Wrestler/Grappler!

So... I was trying to figure out how to make an awesome "wrestler/grappler" under level 10 (prob starting at lev 6).  Any help on builds, links to builds, ideas on magic items, feat selection, costume ideas (LOL), anything would be great help. 

The goal is have a fun character (but not disruptive) who takes himself, and his "art", very seriously.  Almost like a Luchador.  Just want to make something my friends havent seen.  I guess just like anyone else!

Thanks everyone!
Flag Slagger_the_Chuul January 6, 2013 7:45 PM PST
Depending on what books are available for use, the swordsage from Tome of Battle would be a solid place to start; despite the name, they've got an unarmed variant (described in their "Adaptation" section), and one of the maneuver disciplines to which they have access is Setting Sun, where you'll find a lot of relevant attacks.

Flag draco1119 January 6, 2013 8:02 PM PST
Or a Tashalatora (feat in Secrets of Sarlona with a prereq feat in the Eberron Campaign Setting) monk/psychic warrior. 
Flag Tempest_Stormwind January 7, 2013 12:52 PM PST
Seconding unarmed swordsage.

Be advised that grappling becomes very hard to apply as levels increase, largely due to enough effects like Freedom of Movement completely shutting it down, so focusing on other, thematically-related but mechanically-independent effects would be wise. Setting Sun throws can be a good example of this - fundamentally, they use trip mechanics, but the throws themselves result in simple pushes or suplexes at low levels to meteoric line attacks and a literal Tornado Throw at higher levels.

Since swordsages learn plenty of maneuvers you'll be able to pick up other flashy stunts along the way - I'd suggest looking into Tiger Claw (roughly a third of the discipline's moves involve high-flying dramatic attacks - although you'd have to wait until you have 2nd level maneuvers if you want to avoid Wolf Fang Strike, which doesn't fit your concept at all), Diamond Mind (which gives you plenty of artistic / speedy strikes), and possibly a couple Stone Dragon maneuvers (largely for its Constrict stance, the swiss-army-chainsaw that is Mountain Hammer, and possibly a few of the dramatic "stampede" style maneuvers - you won't use many Stone Dragons compared to Setting Suns, but you will appreciate having a few around). Grabbing a couple other utility maneuvers (perhaps most importantly some of the zero-prerequisite Shadow Hand moves (i.e. Cloak of Deception and any of the teleports) or the Diamond Mind counters) may be wise in the long run. As for stances, the best of the first-level stances for this concept is probably Step of the Wind (note that this enhances your throws if you can lead targets into rough terrain, and that a lot of things count as difficult terrain besides rocks and undergrowth); Stonefoot Stance has similar synergy but is much harder to employ properly (it's defensive rather than versatile - I would only consider it a worthwhile stance as a prerequisite or on low-level NPCs.).

You will not do that much damage to begin with, as unarmed strikes (even with monk damage) do not hold a candle to Power Attack. The main reason you'd want the unarmed variant swordsage at all is because it gives you access to a bonus Improved Unarmed Strike feat (a prerequisite for a huge number of feats) as well as full Strength to each unarmed strike.


EDIT: I'd go a step further than what Krusk says below and say that you should not take Clever Wrestling either. It provides half the benefit a size increase would provide, except the feat goes away if you get larger than Medium (which really is the best way to wrestle in D&D, period - look into size-increasing gear whenever you want to really break out the big guns). (At higher levels you might want to mix grappling with Antimagic Field, to prevent Freedom of Movement and verbal-action teleports, and this doesn't work with magic size boosts. However, even in this circumstance, Clever Wrestling isn't worth it - you'll get a bigger bang from your maneuvers.)
Flag Krusk January 7, 2013 3:21 PM PST

Unarmed swordsage is what you want. Don't prestige class, and you will be pretty much set. 


Reaping Mauler is what you don't want. Its a trap. 

Flag Ahruhn January 14, 2013 8:30 AM PST
I don't know much about the classes previously mentioned, but as far as feats go I'd suggest Scorpion's Grasp from Dungeon Magazine 120. It effectively gives you the monster ability Improved Grab with no size limitations, but doesn't allow you to maintain the hold with a -20 penalty while attacking others.
 
 Prereqs are Str 13, Dex 13, Imp. Unarmed Strike, Imp Grapple.

If you hit a Creature with a one-handed or light weapon (including unarmed strike), deal damage normally and then you have the option of starting a Grapple as a Free Action without provoking an Attack of Opportunity (no Touch needed).
If a Grapple is started and you are wielding a one-handed weapon, you drop it.
If a Grapple is started and you are wielding a Light weapon, you may continue holding it. Each round, you may attack your grappled foe as normal with it, except you do not have the standard -4 penalty. 
Flag Tempest_Stormwind January 14, 2013 9:13 AM PST

Jan 14, 2013 -- 8:30AM, Ahruhn wrote:

I don't know much about the classes previously mentioned



Swordsage is in Tome of Battle. It's basically a martial-arts expert that works just fine with or without weapons, and prefers lighter armor. It has a lot of different maneuvers you can perform, depending on how you build them. It's basically everything you want, which is why it was mentioned again and again. They're easy to build, hard to screw up, fun to play, and can accommodate a wide range of playstyles. Learning maneuvers from the Tiger Claw (aggression, acrobatics; focus on maneuvers involving Jump), Setting Sun (counterattacks, throws; focus on maneuvers involving trip attacks), and Stone Dragon (endurance, strength; consider maneuvers linked to bull rush/overrun/trample or crushing targets) disciplines will capture your feel pretty damn well without relying on eighty books and magic.

Tashalatora is a feat in Secrets of Sarlona that requires Monastic Training (Eberron Campaign Setting, lets you multiclass one other class with monk freely, can be taken at monk level 2 in place of combat reflexes or deflect arrows; Tash requires Monastic Training to link up to a psionic class). Tashalatora allows you to freely multiclass monk with the linked psionic class, and lets the psionic class stack for most of the monk's goodies. It's reached the point where Monk 2 / Ardent 18 (Complete Psionic) or Monk 2 / Psychic Warrior 18 (Expanded Psionics Handbook) can do anything the monk could ever want, but do it well. It's just more "magical" than the swordsage. Due to powers like Expansion, Grip of Iron, and natural weapon powers, they make amazing grapplers.

The Reaping Mauler is in Complete Warrior, but as has been said, do not take it.

The but as far as feats go I'd suggest Scorpion's Grasp from Dungeon Magazine 120. It effectively gives you the monster ability Improved Grab with no size limitations, but doesn't allow you to maintain the hold with a -20 penalty while attacking others.



Dragon magazine's new creative material is largely poorly designed, but if you're insisting on taking it, it can work just fine with either class option above.

A Swordsage with Improved Trip can grab someone and throw them very far, or can suplex someone and deliver a folloup attack which, thanks to this feat, can both deal damage and combo into a bear-hug. You then shift stances to Crushing Weight of the Mountain and pick up the Constrict ability. Later on, you can shift over to effects like Devastating Throw (basically a running power throw) or Ballista Throw (throw an enemy as a projectile in a line attack), or Death from Above (a high-flying overhead attacks, "off the top rope" if you prefer), or any of the Stone Dragon movement-based powers (which are all variants on a tackle - the low-level ones work on Bull Rush or Overrun, eventually upgrading all the way to Trample). All of this is available by level 10 and only requires one (very good) book.

A monk 2 / psychic warrior 8 can grab several bonus feats (probably Improved Grapple and Monastic Training from monk, getting Tashalatora at level 3, and getting four bonus psionic or fighter feats from the psychic warrior), and will have access to powers like Expansion (get very big, which comes with a huge grapple modifier from size and strength), Grip of Iron (dramatically improve grapple checks), and Strength of My Enemy (each time you hit an enemy you steal one point of Strength from them), plus five other powers along the way. You'll have some stamina issues without cheesing it, since psychic warriors can't manifest an incredible number of powers, but you'll get a lot of bang for relatively little buck from their amazing buffs. With the exception of Monastic Training (described above) and Tashalatora (exactly what it does can easily be found by googling around), all of the classes and powers in question are available for free in the SRD as well.

Flag Tempest_Stormwind January 14, 2013 1:46 PM PST
Sorry for the double post, but here's what I meant. This is a 10th level unarmed swordsage build that might suit you well.

Build: Show
Human Swordsage 10, Unarmed Swordsage variant. 15/13/12/10/14/8 to start, Str up at 4 and 8.
Feats (* for bonus): Improved Unarmed Strike*, Improved Grapple*, Scorpion's Grasp, Adaptive Style, Extra Readied Maneuver, Snap Kick
Maneuvers and stances Show
Character level 1: Counter Charge, Mighty Throw, Charging Minotaur, Moment of Perfect Mind, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Stone Bones, {Step of the Wind}
Level 2: Wind Stride, {Flame's Blessing}
Level 3: Claw at the Moon
Level 4: Cloak of Deception, SWAP Wind Stride for Shadow Jaunt
Level 5: Devastating Throw, {Crushing Weight of the Mountain}
Level 6: Soaring Raptor Strike, SWAP Claw at the Moon for Mind over Body
Level 7: Bounding Assault
Level 8: Death from Above, SWAP Stone Bones for Comet Throw
Level 9: Mountain Avalanche {Hearing the Air}
Level 10: Soaring Throw, SWAP Shadow Jaunt for Shadow Stride

Chosen class features: Discipline Focus is probably going to be any with Unarmed Strike (Tiger Claw gives you some of the best other options from those that allow unarmed strikes), Insightful Strike is probably either Setting Sun or Tiger Claw, Defensive Stance is... I don't know, depends which of your stances you need the best saving throws using.
Equipment: You don't need much, just the standard ability score boosters for this (mostly Strength, Con, and Wis).

To see what those DO, head over here. Maneuvers in Red are Desert Wind, Blue are Diamond Mind, Orange are Setting Sun, Green is Tiger Claw, and Brown are Stone Dragon (Black are Shadow Hand, which are minor here). The Snap Kick feat gives you additional unarmed attacks, even if you're carrying a weapon for your strike attacks, and this lets you get Scorpion Grab attempts off no matter what you actually do. Adaptive Style and Extra Readied were there because I didn't know what else to take and those are pretty "standard" swordsage feats (the latter is self explanatory if you know the system, the former basically lets you adjust your readied maneuvers on the fly).

Just reflavor everything to fit El Lobo's characterization (for instance, it might not be "Charging Minotaur" so much as a running tackle (toning it down), or it might not be Death from Above so much as "Flying Fist to the Face!" (toning it up).
Flag Slagger_the_Chuul January 14, 2013 6:26 PM PST
For Scorpion's Grasp, I'd like to add that the feat appeared in Sandstorm as well, if you need a printed book as a source, rather than Dragon Magazine.
Flag EruditeApe January 14, 2013 7:30 PM PST
Tempest made a small error; It's absolutely mandatory for every swordsage to take Adaptive Style. It's really not even mandatory, so much as a hidden class feature, much like Druids and Natural Spell, that Swordsages don't get a feat at level 1, and instead get Adaptive Style.

The thing is, Adaptive Style lets them re-ready their maneuvers in combat. More uses and flexibility and all.
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