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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 2:18PM
#371
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Gygax was a wargamer... didnt mean people wanted to not adventure and pretend they were a general. At high level CuCulain/Beowulf still fights the Dragon. (I didnt play 2e or even have any of the expansions to 1e back in the day).
man you missed out Garthanos. That sucks.
Utterly possible the friends I played with had moved or changed play interest. I hear they added combat and tactics to late 2e,which might have been intriguing. I did like some of what I read in 2e and found the list of Fighers from legend and myth very inspiring.
The flavor of 2nd Edition was really a huge strength of that game. Ya, there were lots of cool background and kits in it for all classes. Garth- What do you think you want to think from 4e. needs to make it into the Next Codex? You do prefer that system as I recall.
Yes its my prefered system, I think branching in to that too much would be - off-topic. But in general I do want the non-casters to have the opportunity for choice driven big lime light inducing moves that they dont seem to have currently.
To me balance in the arena of flair needs to be there not just mean performance.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 2:20PM
#372
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Errata is a list of errors and their corrections. According to its definition it is not optional.
True, but technical definitions and common usage can vary, especially in RPGs.
Are you telling me that "errata" does not mean "list of errors and corrections" at WotC?
I think what he means is that it was only electronically available and wasn't forced upon players in any way, allowing a lot of groups to just ignore it.
My two copper.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 2:20PM
#373
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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Gygax was a wargamer... didnt mean people wanted to not adventure and pretend they were a general. At high level CuCulain/Beowulf still fights the Dragon. (I didnt play 2e or even have any of the expansions to 1e back in the day).
man you missed out Garthanos. That sucks.
Utterly possible the friends I played with had moved or changed play interest. I hear they added combat and tactics to late 2e,which might have been intriguing. I did like some of what I read in 2e and found the list of Fighers from legend and myth very inspiring.
The flavor of 2nd Edition was really a huge strength of that game. Ya, there were lots of cool background and kits in it for all classes. Garth- What do you think you want to think from 4e. needs to make it into the Next Codex? You do prefer that system as I recall.
Yes its my prefered system, I think branching in to that too much would be - off-topic. But in general I do want the non-casters to have the opportunity for choice driven big lime light inducing moves that they dont seem to have currently.
To me balance in the arena of flair needs to be there not just mean performance.
ya we are definately high jacking the thread. if you want to do another on this subject let me know.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 2:21PM
#374
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Errata is a list of errors and their corrections. According to its definition it is not optional.
True, but technical definitions and common usage can vary, especially in RPGs.
Are you telling me that "errata" does not mean "list of errors and corrections" at WotC?
They didnt call it errata if I recall they called it updates.. (which doesnt stop people)
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 2:23PM
#375
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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Gygax was a wargamer... didnt mean people wanted to not adventure and pretend they were a general. At high level CuCulain/Beowulf still fights the Dragon. (I didnt play 2e or even have any of the expansions to 1e back in the day).
man you missed out Garthanos. That sucks.
Utterly possible the friends I played with had moved or changed play interest. I hear they added combat and tactics to late 2e,which might have been intriguing. I did like some of what I read in 2e and found the list of Fighers from legend and myth very inspiring.
The flavor of 2nd Edition was really a huge strength of that game. Ya, there were lots of cool background and kits in it for all classes. Garth- What do you think you want to think from 4e. needs to make it into the Next Codex? You do prefer that system as I recall.
Yes its my prefered system, I think branching in to that too much would be - off-topic. But in general I do want the non-casters to have the opportunity for choice driven big lime light inducing moves that they dont seem to have currently.
To me balance in the arena of flair needs to be there not just mean performance.
That is a great subject for a thread right there Garth- i'd be willing to contribute to that if you are willing to get it up and running with an explaination of your expectations and hopes.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 2:29PM
#376
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Date Joined:
May 17, 2009
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Are you telling me that "errata" does not mean "list of errors and corrections" at WotC?
No, I'm telling you that in my experience, most tables have treated errata as optional, despite what the definition of errata would imply.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool. | Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner | |
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 2:36PM
#377
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2009
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If the DM increases all persuasion DC's because of that then he broke the system. Just because one person is good at it doesn't mean you change the system to challenge them. They spent character space on being able to be good at those things. Making all challenges challenging to them in fact invalidates his build, and makes the game impossible for everyone else. Say I'm a diplomancer and I have +10 to my checks while everyone else has a +2 you don't increase all DC's by 8 to challenge me. You accept that I will have a better chance to accomplish most tasks, that many diplomatic situations will not be a challenge for me because I built my self in such a way that I am not challenged regularly in that arena. That is the problem here. The DM changed all the DCs to challenge a player who had built himself to not be challenged by those tasks.
Replace Diplomacy with Combat. Just because one person is good at combat, doesn't mean you change the system to challenge them? Making combat challenges challenging to him in fact invalidates his build?
And some DMs care just as much about out-of-combat negotiations(or even more) than combat, so it isn't insignificant that someone can break the non-combat pillar.
Yeah no just because you don't like the rate of success they have found in a specific situation doesn't mean you up the difficulty for everyone. Just because the fighter can reliably hit a 20 AC doesn't mean you make all monsters have that as a minimum baseline. That punishes the rest of the party that can only reliably hit a 17 ac. You punish them for his greatness, and you make the disparity between them and him even more exacerbated. Now they are in fact abject failures while he is only marginally competent. You moved the minimum competence line up. You broke the system. This is never a correct solution to your problem of not liking the players success rate. DC's and AC's and everything should always be set for the median of competency not the top of it or the bottom of it.
Luckily the bounded accuracy system solves this DMing pitfall by making sure your DCs are within a certain range that can be described by difficulty. I know for a fact what kind of lock, or at least what quality of lock, I just picked given the DC it required me to hit in order to unlock it. I know what kind of DC I am looking at ahead of time to say climb a tree. Just because my training in climb basically guarantees I do this without flaw almost every time it doesn't mean you increase the DC so I stop just auto passing. It means you accept that I built a character with that capability. I wanted that capability I built for it ,and I got it. If you alter the game so that my build is invalidated because I now can't reliably climb trees I am going to be pissed because you just invalidated all the options I took to make that possible. I could have stayed completely untrained and had no worse a chance at climbing trees. You just wouldn't have upped the DCs on me (and apparently everyone else) thus invalidating my build, and I get to spend those resources on something else.
In short yes doing this breaks the game.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 2:39PM
#378
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2012
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They didnt call it errata if I recall they called it updates.. (which doesnt stop people)
Actually "updates" is vague enough to be optional depending on how its presented. They can send out as much of that stuff as they want to. Its just when they start making "corrections" after publishing that I get cranky.
I don't expect to buy books and then have to rebind them myself because something was left out or a chapter was erroniously included.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 2:42PM
#379
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2012
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Are you telling me that "errata" does not mean "list of errors and corrections" at WotC?
No, I'm telling you that in my experience, most tables have treated errata as optional, despite what the definition of errata would imply.
That’s just strange to me; that you, an advocate for balance, would think its ok to disregard RAW when it’s convenient to do so.
I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just surprised.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 08, 2013 - 2:51PM
#380
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Date Joined:
Aug 12, 2006
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@Brightmantle: actually the clones were in time stasis until the spellcaster died and then contingency spells actiovated casting dispel magic on the time stasis.
And congrats your D.M. has a new NPC. and when the first clone awakes he goes and slays the others. Face it your D.M. was wrong.
Why does he have a new NPC?
And why does the clone go and slay the others?
Don't see your point.
And regarding the one hit kill by the fighter: our necromancer had chain contingency triggering when he died, casting limited wish to raise him up and teleport without error to a safe location from where he could plan retaliation. And since we talk about high levels and Combat and Tactics, try to see what happens when a spellcaster outs his hands on True Dweomers.
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