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5 months ago ::
Jan 06, 2013 - 5:47AM
#1
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Good day,
I'm having some trouble during my D&D game, fourth edition.
Some powers, speacially ranger powers, "like Twin strikes" and "attack on the run" indicates the power has one, two or three targets.
What is happenig is the following: the player is attacking the same target two or three times with such attacks. Is it correct to use these powers in such manner or does the targeting "one, two etc" opens the possibility to target more enemies but not the same one more than once?
Thanks for your help.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 06, 2013 - 6:55AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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You are correct, your player is wrong.
1, 2 or 3 creatures, means 1, 2 or 3 creatures. Nothing says he can attack the same creature more than once, so he can't.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 06, 2013 - 7:16AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2008
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It depends on the attack, but if it's noted as "1, 2 or 3 creatures" then that is seperate creatures. Twin Strike does make 2 attacks that can be aimed at 1 or 2 creatures. Spirit Flay: Spoiler:
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Target: One or two creatures
Attack: Charisma vs. Reflex That's one attack that targets 1 or 2 creatures. Rain of Blows: Spoiler:
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Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC. Make the attack twice against the target. self explanitory and a monster attack: Spoiler:
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Attack: Melee 2 (one or two creatures);
+16 vs. AC. If the minotaur targets only one creature, it can make this attack twice against that creature
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5 months ago ::
Jan 06, 2013 - 7:58AM
#4
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Thanks for your help.
But the problem is the flavor texts are misleading, speacially the ranger ones.
For instance, for twin strikes it says: "If the first attack doesn’t kill it, the second one might". for the lvl.9 daily, "Attacks on the run", the text is the following: " Without breaking stride, you make two attacks against a single foe or two different targets".
In both cases the attack description applies that the ranger is making two different attacks, making it even more confusing. Other ranger power, "split the tree", lvl1 daily, clearly implies two targets must be choosen because it writes "two targets" and not "One or two targets".
Sorry for asking the same question again, I just want a little bit more of explanation so I can be sure it's the right decision.
The main problem is that "twin stirkes" becomes too weak if they cannot be used on the same targget and "Attacks on the run" becomes too strong. I tried to search for answers on the Players and the DM handbook, but I couldn't find any rule aproaching the subject.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 06, 2013 - 8:01AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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Twinstrike would not be a weak power if it made you target separate targets (see throw and stab).
Attacks on the run is a good daily but it's hardly overpowered for a striker d9.
Also, ignore flavour text when it comes to the mechanics of how powers work.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 06, 2013 - 8:27AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
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Similar to Twin Strike, Attacks on the Run states that you make two attacks under the "Attack" line. This means they can both be against the same target. Split the Tree does not specify that.
The presence of "two attacks" is what allows the doubling up on a single target.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 06, 2013 - 8:29AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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If it says 'make X attacks, target 1 creature' (c.f. Manticore's Volley), you make all x attacks versus the single chosen target.
If it says 'make x attacks, target 1, 2 or 3 creatures' (c.f. Twin Strike, Attacks on the Run), you make x attacks, which must be targetted at your choice of no more than 3 creatures - all against a single target, or each against a different one.
If it says '1 attack, target 1, 2 or 3 creatures' (c.f. the Wizard's Icy Rays), you get to make a single attack against each of your choice of up to 3 creatures.
Twin Strike makes two attacks, which can be one against each of two targets, or two against one target.
Split The Tree is one attack, which must be against two targets within X squares of each other, and if one hits, both hit. It's an unusual attack.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 06, 2013 - 8:37AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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Targets: Two creatures within 3 squares of each other Attack: Dexterity vs. AC. Make two attack rolls, take the higher result, and apply it to both targets.
Technically you would roll 4 dice and apply the higher each pair to both targets, but that's a really cheesed reading.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 06, 2013 - 9:26AM
#9
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I had the same impression because of the two attacks note.
but once again, a player just scored 84 damage on a hit using "Attacks on the run", because he aimed both attacks on the same target. That is insane because we play an official D&D adventure based only on the main books.
I thank everyone for the help, your oppinions and explanations are more than satisfactory and I thank you all for the imput. Still, does anyone have an errata or the indication on one of the books where the subject is treated? Even thou the DM has the power, the right and the obligation to treat and decide upon dubius game matters, I wanted some actual rule to backup my decision.
Once again, thank you all.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 06, 2013 - 9:26AM
#10
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If you can attack 1, 2, or 3 targets, well, it means precisely that. And yes, you can stack it all on one.
If it says that you cannot attack the same target twice, or specifies that you attack 1 target, then a 2nd target, and then a third, then only one per attack.
Usually the powers specify. If they don't, then they are not limited.
Rangers are the damage kings. Between their attacks and their interrupts, expect to be disgusted, disturbed, and outclassed.
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