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5 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 9:58PM
#101
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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Problem is when you try and cater to people who say "I won't play unless..." its virtually impossable to play. Physical room in a book also excludes varients for every class. If lines get drawn in the sand fromWoTC PoV you may as well cater to the most popular option.
The wizard being non vancian by itself wouldn't kill D&DN for me by itelf but elminating vancian altogather is probably a bad idea regardless of how good the mechanical reasons are for that choice. Hence make the core wizad vancian and probably the cleric/druid and add some non vancian casters and the non vancian varients go into a splat book.
Wouldn't bother me that much if a level 10 vancian wizards new ability was being able to make his staff glow depending on how the classes power level related to the other classes and monsters they would be expecting to face.
Its not perfect but there you go.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 10:31PM
#102
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Problem is when you try and cater to people who say "I won't play unless..." its virtually impossable to play. Physical room in a book also excludes varients for every class. If lines get drawn in the sand fromWoTC PoV you may as well cater to the most popular option.
The wizard being non vancian by itself wouldn't kill D&DN for me by itelf but elminating vancian altogather is probably a bad idea regardless of how good the mechanical resasons are for that choice. Hence make the core wizad vancian and probably the cleric/druid and add some non vancian casters and the non vancian varients go into a splat book.
Wouldn't bother me that much if a level 10 vancian wizards new ability was being able to make his staff glow deonding on how the classes power level related to the other classes and monsters they would be expecting to face.
Its not perfect but there you go.
Considering the wizard class possibly inspires the most ire of all the classes, I hope they can find a few extra pages in the book to give everyone what they want.
You might as well substitute the "page count" argument with the "Wookie Defense" if your using it to suggest that having a non-Vancian wizard means no pure Vancian or other derived type of Vancian wizard. Casters are already hogging the page count because of their spells. I think people could live with a few less redundant lesser, light, major, etc spells if they could get another build option to bring in more players.
I'm not understanding what your trying to say about the staff.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? join the Old Guard of 4th EditionReality Refracted: Social ContractsD & D: A Documentary Kickstarter ( http://kck.st/SyKNzf) 
Dreaming the Impossible Dream
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Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl
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5 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 11:15PM
#103
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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I like vancian wizards but i'm not to worried about the power level they have so they can nerf them down from the heights of 3.5.
They could put a non vancian wizard in core but I think they will make it a splat due to the "why can't they give me XYZ class varient etc etc etc". I could be wrong just wait and see I suppose.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 2:01AM
#104
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2006
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I absolutely love 4E but I also love the different pace and feel that the Essential line brought. I had aLOT of fun with the Knight class and I believe my wife has thoroughly been enjoying he Shadar-kai Berserker.
i also think D&D:next NEEDS to be as variable and modular as possoble upon release to catch a good initial number of people and keep them entertained as the system grows.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 3:00AM
#105
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Well if that's really how they feel, I might as well just give up on play testing this garbage. I only have two main deal breakers. An option to play a non-vancian Wizard, and a balanced game. If they can't do that, I'm gone...
Would you settle for a non vancian spellcaster?
I won't.
Thats on you. Not everyone is going to be happy and if the wizard is not vancian you are basically excluding all of the pre 4th ed fans who care about that sort of thing. If the warlock and sorcerer are no vancian everyone gets something they will like I suppose even if it isn't perfect. Non vancian wizards are usually in a splatbook in 2nd and 3rd ed. Don't like vancian don't play a wizard and play XYZ is alot better than making all spellcaster vancian or all non-vancian.
Not at all.
I'm expecting them to deliver on the modular casting system.
So I can have my Wizard and you can have yours.
Then everyone WILL be happy.
...
Well, barring a few true haters who really will only be happy if they get what they want and everyone else gets screwed. But hopefully that's the one group that WotC DON'T put any effort into pleasing.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 3:03AM
#106
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Well if that's really how they feel, I might as well just give up on play testing this garbage. I only have two main deal breakers. An option to play a non-vancian Wizard, and a balanced game. If they can't do that, I'm gone...
Would you settle for a non vancian spellcaster?
I won't.
Thats on you. Not everyone is going to be happy and if the wizard is not vancian you are basically excluding all of the pre 4th ed fans who care about that sort of thing. If the warlock and sorcerer are no vancian everyone gets something they will like I suppose even if it isn't perfect. Non vancian wizards are usually in a splatbook in 2nd and 3rd ed. Don't like vancian don't play a wizard and play XYZ is alot better than making all spellcaster vancian or all non-vancian.
Wow, no where did anyone say they wanted to exclude vancian spell casters. We simply said we aren't going to be happy with only a vancian spell caster. If they have a vancian caster, and also have a non-vancian caster then we both get what we want...
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5 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 3:06AM
#107
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Problem is when you try and cater to people who say "I won't play unless..." its virtually impossable to play. Physical room in a book also excludes varients for every class. If lines get drawn in the sand fromWoTC PoV you may as well cater to the most popular option.
The wizard being non vancian by itself wouldn't kill D&DN for me by itelf but elminating vancian altogather is probably a bad idea regardless of how good the mechanical reasons are for that choice. Hence make the core wizad vancian and probably the cleric/druid and add some non vancian casters and the non vancian varients go into a splat book.
Wouldn't bother me that much if a level 10 vancian wizards new ability was being able to make his staff glow depending on how the classes power level related to the other classes and monsters they would be expecting to face.
Its not perfect but there you go.
Actually they could easily have non-vancian options. I have written several posts with examples of a single paragraph for each swappable casting system as a suggestion. I'm sure if someone like me can do this, the developers can do better...
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5 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 3:06AM
#108
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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More or less agree I just dont think they will but 2 wizards in the core rules.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 3:11AM
#109
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I like vancian wizards but i'm not to worried about the power level they have so they can nerf them down from the heights of 3.5.
They could put a non vancian wizard in core but I think they will make it a splat due to the "why can't they give me XYZ class varient etc etc etc". I could be wrong just wait and see I suppose.
And many people won't pick up 5E if that is the case. Just like many people passed up 4E for the fact that their favorite core class wasn't in the PHB1...
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5 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 3:27AM
#110
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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The core lasses will be there but I don't realy see them doing 14 classes+ varients for each one and I don't see them making vairents for some and not others. That and varient classes tend to go in splats. The classes will be there, whether or not its your preferred type IDK.
If they can't include core classe varients thats what I am meaning for some spellcasters can be vancian other do not have to be. If it is mixed I think these classes would be the best candidates for a 4th ed legacy.
Fighter
Rogue
Warlord
Warlock
Sorcerer
thats 5/14 and each edition could get kind of 25% of the classes and I was thinking 1st and 2nd are close enough for a 5/5/5 ratio. ATM the Monk and Cleric resemble the 3.5 classes atm, wizzie is pre 3rd ed and the current fighter and rogue seems influenced by 4th but they are kind of new.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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