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Jan 29, 2013 -- 7:38AM, Alaster337 wrote:

Well you apparently missed the part where I said I was only referencing people I know, so of course there will be exceptions to the generalization.  I've played for twenty years myself from in the same editions you have in addition to OD&D, B/X, and BECMI, and while I have noted this observation in the players and DMs I will say I think the differences in mindsets are systemic not social. I cannot confirm that as I have preformed no experiments to that effect, but it is my suspicion. I won't explain further however, as such conversations often degenerate into me being accused of bias, despite the fact that I have played editions across the board.

Sure did miss it but it doesn't matter.  There are more variables at play here than I think you've decided to look at.  People change over time and four editions over the span of 2 decades leaves a ton of room for explanations outside of 'the editions did it'. 

Meh, it's just that simple (er, complex) to me, I guess.  Look at it like this: you're playing 2e with your buddies and you're 12 years old.  18 years later you pick up 4e with the same crew (as I did) or with totally different people.  What could possibly have changed in 18 years - from pre-teen to in the world adult?  I'd say it's a hell of a lot more than the edition.

On top of all that, you've got the age when people pick up each edition.  Someone who picked up 2e at 12 is gonna likely see the game differently than someone who's fist exposure at age 12 was to D&D 3.5.  If you're in your 30s and you're playing with guys and gals in their late teens, there's some serious differences there, too.  Simplifying this to edition, quite simply, doesn't work.  There's far too much going on to see it so plainly.

Jan 29, 2013 -- 8:42AM, Alaster337 wrote:

This is why I do not discuss why I think the cause is systemic not social, I have not run experiments nor can I confirm for sure that what I say is true, but its an observation and it would take a block of text to explain why. I would also be accused of bias.

Fair enough - though I am intrigued ...

I will say that I have played for twenty years and have played all the editions you have.

And the fact that we've had different experiences and have come to different conclusions hasn't swayed your view even a bit?  How ... interesting.  Do you think I'm a liar or something? 

Jan 29, 2013 -- 9:54AM, Zombie_Babies wrote:

Jan 29, 2013 -- 8:42AM, Alaster337 wrote:

This is why I do not discuss why I think the cause is systemic not social, I have not run experiments nor can I confirm for sure that what I say is true, but its an observation and it would take a block of text to explain why. I would also be accused of bias.

Fair enough - though I am intrigued ...

I will say that I have played for twenty years and have played all the editions you have.

And the fact that we've had different experiences and have come to different conclusions hasn't swayed your view even a bit?  How ... interesting.  Do you think I'm a liar or something? 

No I do not think you're a liar, and attempting to turn this in to a personal attack with you playing the victim is not appreciated. As I said in the beginning my generalization is based solely on the people I know and associate with on a regular or semi regular basis. As for changing my view, you are but one person who has had different experiences, and this is all based on conjecture. Even if there were more people with similar experiences to yours that means little as there is no hard evidence to support either side, at this point. I am merely pointing out an observation I made and a conclusion I came to based on said observation. If there were a controlled experiment that proved that the mentality difference was not systemic, or that there was no mentality difference and it could be repeated with similar results then obviously I would withdraw conceed my conclusion was incorrect.

Let me ask you the same question you asked me, has your view been swayed by the fact that I have had different experiences from you and have come to a different conclusion than you?

Jan 29, 2013 -- 10:32AM, draco1119 wrote:

No need to be so serious. ZB and I were both just funnin'. Nothing that we said that didn't specifically apply to the game was meant to be taken seriously.

I'm not taking this seriously, I just enjoy a good debate, and I have to admit ZB has been a pretty good debater. It's enjoyable when someone is willing to debate without resulting to name calling or other childish antics.