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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 6:59PM
#1
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2007
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So our latest game started last night and I rocked up with a soft optimised 4th level Knight, I got that stance that slows, and World Serpent's Grasp to knock stuff down. I read the guides, but try to play down power levels since I know no one else reads guides.
One of my mates rocks up with a 4th level Rogue that seems almost intentionally bad, he tanks his Dex because he wanted to be a party face, took Skill Training Arcana and Ritual Casting and no Rituals.
So the Rogue fails to hit, does little damage, and then gives me the worst glare in the world after I hit for more than 20, then hates on our Sorcerer because she has 20 charisma to his 19.
This is partially just storytime, partially "does this happen a lot" and partially a question about the best way to encourage people towards the idea that combat effectiveness does not detract from roleplaying prowess.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 7:03PM
#2
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No, it doesn't happen a lot. I've never seen anybody crap out DEX on a rogue. The book freakin' tells you that you need a high DEX. There's even a specific rogue build that uses DEX primary, CHA secondary.
As far as the sorcerer goes, that doesn't mean much. The Sorc can't train in the kind of skills the Rogue can (at least not easily). Raw stats don't matter so much for being the face as skill trainings.
All you can do is tell him what you just said; optimization and role-play are not inversely proportional.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 8:47PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2006
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It's not real common. Not much you can do other than say "What did you expect would happen if you purposefully took a low dex for a rogue." In my group if a character doesn't work out its not uncommon to rejig the character a few sessions in. Maybe that person can be open minded and take the comments as instructional rather than criticism
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 9:01PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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Like the others have said. It isn't real common to encounter people who make characters that purposefully horrible, but it also isn't unheard of. That player sounds like someone who the DM needs to have a sit-down with so he/she doesn't have to have a "get out of my game" style confrontation at some point fairly soon.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 10:11PM
#5
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2007
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As far as the sorcerer goes, that doesn't mean much. The Sorc can't train in the kind of skills the Rogue can (at least not easily). Raw stats don't matter so much for being the face as skill trainings.
Yeah that kinda gets me, all he looked at was raw stat and had a cry. It's all pretty ludicrous really.
Well I may say something when he calms down, he swears he's going to do his own rebuild before next session because he's sick of coming last or something.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 05, 2013 - 1:39PM
#6
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So, what was his concept? Sounds like he wanted to play some kind of spell caster with a penchant for theivery, or just did not understand the game mechanics.
I have, from time to time, played less-than-optimized characters, and played characters less than optimally.
And for a goof, we sometimes have weird one-off advetures (The All-Jawa party, the All-Droid party, the All Dragonborn party, the all-primary-stat=dump-stat party) but en every case, it was agreed ahead of time that everyone would be playing the same way, with the same general idea. To have one person be the clown is OK, if that person understands that he will be the ineffectual clown, but to go in without knowing... or understanding... That is a problem.
Yes, we also have the "If you don't like the character, retrain or retire it" rule. Sounds like it might be helpful.
If your fighter/knight is doing more damage than the rogue, something is very wrong. Now, what we have always found effective is for the fighter and rogue to team up. The fighter provides the flanking and marking, and the rogue pounds in with the extra damage and occasional interrupt. (Not very original, but still quite effective). Maybe you and your friend can start setting up that kind of relationship with your characters?
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For some reason, none of my friends were surprised by this...
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5 months ago ::
Jan 05, 2013 - 3:05PM
#7
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with tanked dex, I don't see how the rogue can even hit anything to get his sneak attack dice in. I think the correct response to this is "dude, look at your dex. WTF did you expect?" This isn't an optimisation problem. This is a "player chose to gimp himself" issue.
EDIT: I should probably offer advice if I'm going to comment. I'd recommend to the player if he wants to be both a rogue, and the party face...take a look at being a changeling to get a bonus to both dex and charisma. That allows him to change his appearance for the situation. Put a 16 in both charisma and dex, with racial bonuses that will put him up to an 18 in both. Take a background that gives a bonus to diplomacy (I am assuming that a rogue can train it natively)
That will give him reasonable combat modifiers, and make him good at the skills a party face would need, such as diplomacy, bluff and intimidate.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 05, 2013 - 4:03PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Apr 29, 2006
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I'm going to be blunt. He should have RTFM. If you play a dex-based class, and the book tells you you to put your highest stat in dex so you can hit stuff, and you tank dex, you have no one to blame but yourself. So...yeah...
I would give some more constructive criticism if I had a better idea of what the player was trying to achieve. With the combination of rogue, ritual casting, and desire to be the party face, it sounds like he wanted to play a charismatic spellcaster with some roguish skills, and there are a number of ways to achieve that. Just off the top of my head, wizard, sorcerer, warlock, and bard all lend themselves to that concept easily. And they are far from the only options.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 05, 2013 - 6:00PM
#9
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Yes, upon re-reading the original post, perhaps a warlock would be a better choice in classes. They get theivery out of the box, and with a background can pick up stealth. Go with a dex/cha race. Pick skills accordingly. And for the love of all that is holy...pick char based warlock powers, not con based ones.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 05, 2013 - 9:17PM
#10
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2007
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So, what was his concept? Sounds like he wanted to play some kind of spell caster with a penchant for theivery, or just did not understand the game mechanics.
The concept was a literal "deal with the devil", where he's the devil doing the dealing. So he has ritual caster, took a feat for arcana, took a feat for ritual caster, dunno where the third went, all so he can write up contracts(?)
It's all rather funny how he handled it, "ugh, I have to wait another 10 levels until I can be good at stuff".
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