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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 10:29AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2005
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Vancian magic is already gone. Ezren from pathfinder is an example of a Vancian mage. He is chiseled with a crossbow on his back. He has the look of someone who has survived for years with a handful of daily spells. The current Next wizard has a frost gun, slot spells, and rituals. He doesnt have to touch weapons or worry half as much about memorizing the wrong spell.
I dont like the current Wizard. It doesnt make the extremes happy. For me its not close to being a Vancian tradition while the OP wants to do away with it because its too Vancian. If you are going to have multiple traditions you might as well make everyone happy. The Cleric arcanist is an AEDU wizard and I have suggested a pure atwill wild mage so all that is left is a pure vancian. The current mold can handle specialist and Sorcerer's can round out the rest.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 10:35AM
#12
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It's not that you forget the spells and have to learn them again in the morning. The way it works is that you're imprinting the magical tracing in your mind. It's almost like pre-casting part of the spell. you don't simply forget something that have you learned. In fact in AD&D you had to roll to learn the spell and then scribe it into your spell book. Learning the spell was very different than "memorizing it"
That. What he said.
In the Vancian system spells are supposed to be so complex and demanding that you can't just cast one out of the blue, immediately.
In fact, you do, but to do that you pre-cast your selected spells when you "memorize" them (yeah, not a good term), so when you need the spell on the next day, you can simply "finish" the casting by unleashing the spell.
What always lacked on the Vancian system was a method for casting the spell without the "pre-casting".
I've always had a house-rule for that which I called Ritual Casting, where you can cast any spell you have access to (by means of a spellbook or scroll so you can read the steps), except it takes a long while for the spell to be cast.
Funny enough, it seems 5ed is now implementing just that. And they're also calling it Ritual Casting.
[paranoia]*looks around for the Men In Black*[/paranoia]
But anyway... I don't know man, maybe it's just nostalgia, or maybe I'm just accustomed to it, but I don't dislike the Vancian system.
I don't really have any argument pro-Vancian and I do have some house-rules for Magic Points and such alternatives, but it doesn't bother me at all to play a Wizard with the traditional Vancian system. I kinda like it.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 12:29PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2006
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I hate the Vancian Magic System. The whole. It's illogical, it's hard to use, and it's very very limiting. For all MY sake, I want the D&D Next without the Vancian Magic.
There, corrected that for you. 
Why?
The spellcasters in nearly all fantasy settings sacrifice nigh everything. They are weak in body, and their only power is Magic. Magic, which is useless, as it is in D&D now. A first level caster can barely cast anything at all (Altough in the 5e they can deal significant damage with cantrips alone) but even on higher levels, they have very limited capabilities. A few spells per day, yes they are powerful enough... there is nothing wrong with the spells (except the material components. Seriously, why???) but there is a slight problem. They need to know what situations they will face. Yes, for the average dungeon crawler, that is pretty predictable. Some damage, some escape, some utility, and they are done. But what about the people who roleplay, and barely go dungeons?
Well, the game doesn't force you to put your poorest scores into Str. & Con. So maybe your D&D caster will resemble whatever scrawny mages you've read about. Or maybe they won't.
As for the bolded part?
They say knowledge is power.... You can always try & find out what your going to be walking into.
Sometimes you can do this by casting various divinations/scyings/other recon type spells. Or having them cast for you.
Other times? It's called Role-Play. You/other characters go around seeking rumors, etc. about ____ .....
For the underlined part? Knowledge is still power....
My best advice here is to pay attention to the game your actually in. And how the DM runs things.
You'll figure out spell mixes that work well after awhile.
Or what about the NPC-s? What spells does an NPC use?
(speaking as a DM)
Oh, that's easy! Any spell the DM thinks will add to the story.
The only limitation I place on myself NPC-wise is how many spells of a certain Lv. can be cast according to the NPCs xp chart.
I NEVER bother to plot out what an NPC actually has memorized/prepaired.
I do tend to write down what the NPC has in their spell book though if I think there's a chance it might be falling into the players hands.
And if it comes to looting the caster? Then I'll randomly determine (after combat of course) how many "sets" of spell componants they had left for any spells they had cast.
Spellcasters, Wizards mostly are very limited. First: they HAVE TO know what's going to happen that day... Call me when you can always predict the future.....
Read what I've posted above again.
Second: they have to have expensive, hardly aquireable material components for nearly every spell. Third: They have spellbooks to memorize spells from. No comment needed.
Spell components - most aren't that expensive. Or hard to aquire. Some are, sure. But just think of those as being an excuse for some more adventuring/RP. Sometimes you might even find them as treasure.
At the extreme? Consider spell components as a form of ammo. Afterall, longbow + arrows = damage to target. So why not Spell + component = effect?
Spell books - why not? Ok, so you might lose it somehow. Well, the fighter might lose his weapons.... They also make good treasure to hand out. And really? how big an issue carrying a spell book around is depends alot upon the DM.
LOL.
Lots of hypotheticals in there. And maybe that's how your games go.... But on the whole? It's not what happens to this Vancian caster.
LOL.
& LOL x2 at the bolded part.
It's true.  The weapon users do have an easier time of it once they've grabbed some other weapon.
That's mostly because they have a higher BaB thanks to their class than I do.
But if you think I'm unable to cause trouble just because I'm not waiving a staff & slinging spells? Remember, knowledge is power. And I am playing a guy with an 18+ INT. Who makes his living adventuring. Trust me, there's still plenty of havoc to be caused.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 1:01PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2012
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I've come to accept Vancian magic as a style of magic. But it's far from what I want. I think there should be an alternative magic using class (or system) available, because I'm sure it will make more sense to me (and others).
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 1:15PM
#15
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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Personally, I think that the best solution is, in addition to having at-will cantrips, MORE THAT 3 or 4!
is to have both encounter and daily spells of each level.
Then a wizard while preparing spell can choose power over sustainability.
Of course, 99% of wizards will choose power and again force 5MWD, but WotC can at least say: we tried and we gave you options.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 1:19PM
#16
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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I'm hoping for no default wizard, with multiple approaches. Maybe a quick conversion guide for adapting AEDU powers of 4e to an AEDU-style mage. This way, 4th ed books are VERY useful in 5e. This would be another reason for PoD (print on demand) of 4e titles. Plus, a list of Vancian spells/guide to transfering Vancian style spells would be sweet too. Another thing I want to explore is power point and Alternity FX style magic options are modules as well.
As for me, I won't use the encounter power option, but... BUT, I want it to be available, because I KNOW there are plenty of people who want to utilize such a mechanic, as well as benefitting them greatly in their characters. So yes, leave it as a valid option, either as others have proposed or my proposal.
Disgruntled ghost of the Knights of W.T.F.
(Keep D&D alive, end the edition wars!)
"And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Disclaimer: Most of my posts are based on opinions (and are sometimes humorous, other times inspirational)
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 1:24PM
#17
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Of course, 99% of wizards will choose power and again force 5MWD, but WotC can at least say: we tried and we gave you options.
How can you say that? There are PLENTY of people on the forums pining for encounter powers and rallying against the 5MWD. I see plenty of candidates for those options. Remember, not every person will feel pressured to do soemthing because it may seem more powerful. Deffinately not 99%.
My two copper.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 1:28PM
#18
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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Of course, 99% of wizards will choose power and again force 5MWD, but WotC can at least say: we tried and we gave you options.
How can you say that? There are PLENTY of people on the forums pining for encounter powers and rallying against the 5MWD. I see plenty of candidates for those options. Remember, not every person will feel pressured to do soemthing because it may seem more powerful. Deffinately not 99%.
and I'm one of those also, I would even want to see NO or very few per day spells as wizard.(I hate crossbows)
But if you are not expecting, as a wizard, to explore and battle whole day long, what would you choose?
Encounter power, or in a case of emergency spell that will make the opponent regret even trying to attack you?
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 1:37PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2011
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Of course, 99% of wizards will choose power and again force 5MWD, but WotC can at least say: we tried and we gave you options.
How can you say that? There are PLENTY of people on the forums pining for encounter powers and rallying against the 5MWD. I see plenty of candidates for those options. Remember, not every person will feel pressured to do soemthing because it may seem more powerful. Deffinately not 99%.
and I'm one of those also, I would even want to see NO or very few per day spells as wizard.(I hate crossbows)
But if you are not expecting, as a wizard, to explore and battle whole day long, what would you choose?
Encounter power, or in a case of emergency spell that will make the opponent regret even trying to attack you?
How about the Encounter power that will make the opponent regret even trying to attack you?
:P
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 1:55PM
#20
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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Of course, 99% of wizards will choose power and again force 5MWD, but WotC can at least say: we tried and we gave you options.
How can you say that? There are PLENTY of people on the forums pining for encounter powers and rallying against the 5MWD. I see plenty of candidates for those options. Remember, not every person will feel pressured to do soemthing because it may seem more powerful. Deffinately not 99%.
and I'm one of those also, I would even want to see NO or very few per day spells as wizard.(I hate crossbows)
But if you are not expecting, as a wizard, to explore and battle whole day long, what would you choose?
Encounter power, or in a case of emergency spell that will make the opponent regret even trying to attack you?
How about the Encounter power that will make the opponent regret even trying to attack you?
:P
that would be the best variation 
but if they do the E/D variation from 4E, I expect for daily to have atleast twice the power of an encounter power of equal level.
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