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Switch to Forum Live View Lycanthropy Question
5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 10:53PM #1
Kailmung
Date Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Posts: 84
I am/was trying to think of throwing some rather intresting types of monsters.

I have this Minotaur Lord who has been comanding a bugbear army. I was thinking of the Minotaur getting into a form of cross-breeding to strengthen his army. His maze has a few sections I haven't fleshed out yet and would be perfect for something like cells for were-creatures.

I have seen all mentions of "human form", "were(insert animal)", and "hybrid form". Does this mean only humans can become lycanthropes? Or would other races be subject to the disease as well?

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 10:57PM #2
Centauri
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 9,694

Jan 2, 2013 -- 10:53PM, Kailmung wrote:

I have seen all mentions of "human form", "were(insert animal)", and "hybrid form". Does this mean only humans can become lycanthropes? Or would other races be subject to the disease as well?


It's whatever you want. Don't let the rules block what you think would be a cool idea.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 12:17AM #3
Neutronium_Dragon
Date Joined: Aug 11, 2006
Posts: 5,779
  4E assumes that werewolves(etc) are a species unto themselves, rather than a curse/disease that ordinary people can contract; someone else getting bitten results in a non-transformative disease like filth fever or moon frenzy. 3E has a mix of curse/disease and 'natural' lycanthropy that is layered onto an existing creature type.

  Both 3E and 4E have positioned shifters as the "lycanthrope-blooded" humanoid; the result of interbreeding between lycanthropes and (usually) humans. Trying to create weird hybrids with other types of monsters is liable to result in more problems than benefits though, especially with the substantial psychological changes that come along with the physical ones.

  Thus, the answer might vary a bit depending on which edition you're using. If you're working with a specific setting (Nentir Vale, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, etc) then it might also change the situation since each of those puts its own lore-spin on lycanthropy. On the whole, though, Mr. Minotaur Lord is probably best off recruiting existing lycanthropes than trying to create a hybrid/infected army.

  As for the specific appearance: the canonical 4E ones generally have a human form, but there are some exceptions; their abilities won't be any different regardless of what their humanoid form looks like. The 3E ones vary in terms of base species, although IIRC they still need to be 'humanoid' or 'giant' class creatures. In its case the base creature type does have an impact on the creature's abilities.

  I'm not sure how happy they'd be (in either edition) to be asked to sit around in a maze all day, though...
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 12:36AM #4
Kailmung
Date Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Posts: 84
It is 3E, that I am using.

Mr. Minotaur is the leader of a bugbear army. And I was looking at bugbears and thought if they turn into werewolves they would look basically like menacing versions of themselves. That is what lead me down this path of thinking. And I am leaning on more of the fact that Minotaur's as a whole are fairly intelligent creatures to begin with, which would lead one to think of doing something like this.

The sections of the maze ... one would be a holding area for "pure blood" werewolves. A room for the chosen bugbears to be turned, and lastly a resting chamber where the bugbears would "heal" up while getting used to there new powers.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 1:37AM #5
Neutronium_Dragon
Date Joined: Aug 11, 2006
Posts: 5,779
Okay, in 3E (assuming no setting-specific differences - Eberron in particular could mess this up) lycanthropy essentially comes in two forms: natural and afflicted.

  Natural lycanthropes are in full control of themselves and their powers, since they're born as such. They're also the only ones who can normally infect someone else with the condition - afflicted lycanthropes can't infect others - so Mr. Minotaur would need to recruit some of these guys to get started. Of course, they usually have their own interests and agendas, and those don't normally involve being someone's guard dogs. Evil ones are also notoriously unreliable as allies.

  Afflicted ones present a different problem: they don't have full control (and most don't have any control) over their shapeshifting or their actions while changed. They could be useful as a kamikaze/suicide squad of sorts, but they'll be as dangerous to the rest of the minotaur's forces as his enemies would if he tries to make a regular unit out of them.

  Now, a group of natural lycanthropes who happen to be bugbears and thus part of the bugbear tribe is a possibility, especially if it's something more along the lines of being the gift of a clan totem (similar to the Gray Wolves of the Uthgardt tribes in the FR setting), and would give them a solid reason to work alongside their 'ordinary' fellows.

  In this case they probably wouldn't be able to infect anyone else (again, similar to the Gray Wolf Uthgardt), and even if it were possible it'd be a bad idea to try that in an organized fashion for the reasons noted above. On the other hand, the totem's "gift" could be sought by non-werewolf members of the bugbear tribe, thereby turning them into "natural" werewolves... if they're willing to face the unpleasantly high attrition rate involved in whatever trial/initiation is required.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 11:44AM #6
Tech-Priest
Date Joined: Apr 27, 2010
Posts: 2,095
Just a thought, but, y'know...since it's in the name and all, why not try Werebears instead of cliche' Werewolves?
RIP George! 4-21-11
RIP Abie! 1-2-13


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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 11:56AM #7
Diachronos
Date Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 183
It's still workable if you go with the MM rules, but it depends on how long the minotaur has been leading.

He could have isolated the inflicted lycanthropes where they can't kill anything and bred them in order to spawn natural ones. The naturals could then be raised for the army, with inflicteds who are no good for breeding or too hard to control being used as cannon fodder.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 4:02PM #8
SvenTheBlowfish
Date Joined: Jan 13, 2012
Posts: 27

Jan 2, 2013 -- 10:57PM, Centauri wrote:

It's whatever you want. Don't let the rules block what you think would be a cool idea.




This.

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 4:48PM #9
crzyhawk
Date Joined: Nov 6, 2010
Posts: 780
There are a few halfling were-creatures in FR canon.  One is mentioned as the leader of the dead rats guild in Luskan, and IIRC there are some more were-halflings in module Sceptre Tower of Spellgard as well.  If there are halflings, I'd think other races were on the table as well.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 7:10PM #10
Neutronium_Dragon
Date Joined: Aug 11, 2006
Posts: 5,779
> This.

  Except that simply proclaiming the self-evident "Do whatever you want," doesn't actually answer the OP's question about the rules-assumed state of affairs.

> There are a few halfling were-creatures in FR canon.

  If he's dealing with 3E then there are all kinds of lycanthropes in canon because it's a template that gets thrown onto existing creatures and a human werewolf is NOT the same thing as a bugbear werewolf. (The only real limitation on applying the 3E templates is that the creatures have to have a certain base type and the humanoid and animal forms can't be more than one step apart size-wise.) Of course, the 3E FR throws a bunch of other monkey wrenches into the situation in terms of story/fluff, but since no specific setting has been mentioned...

  4E took a different approach to the idea (although the handling of it for PCs as a theme instead of a race clashes with their 4E backstory); a wererat is a wererat regardless of whether its humanoid form looks like a human or a halfling. (This actually makes things an awful lot easier on the DM than the template system of 3E.)

  --

  Regardless, it isn't too difficult to conceive of a bugbear tribe with true-born or spirit-gifted lycanthrope members. The issue tends to be that, with the exception of wererats (who generally prefer underground warrens), their bestial nature doesn't really suit being asked to hang around in a maze all day/night long as guards.
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