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It's a good idea. But I would still have a damage bonus that looks like this. 1[w]+ability mod+level mod+feat+magic. If we were to have multiple attacks, we could have a progression table like this. Note that "power" here refers to a spell, prayer, maneuver, feat or class only skill. Level-Up Advancement Table
lvl 2	skill+1
lvl 3	ability+1
lvl 4	1 additional power
lvl 5	1 additional skill or skill+1
lvl 6	ability+1
lvl 7	1 additional power
lvl 8	1 additional main action
lvl 9	skill+1
lvl 10	ability+1
lvl 11	1 additional power
lvl 12	1 additional skill or skill+1
lvl 13	ability+1
lvl 14	1 additional power
lvl 15	1 additional off-hand action
lvl 16	skill+1
lvl 17	ability+1
lvl 18	1 additional power
lvl 19	1 additional skill or skill+1
lvl 20	ability+1
lvl 21	1 additional power
lvl 22	1 additional reaction
lvl 23	skill+1
lvl 24	ability+1
lvl 25	1 additional power

Jan 2, 2013 -- 7:05PM, MechaPilot wrote:

Jan 2, 2013 -- 7:03PM, StephenT wrote:

Extra attacks really pall with large groups.    They are useful as an easy mechanism to handle lots of minion grade monsters.   But I seem to have missed the analysis about just scaling mutlple [W] damage as you go up levels.  Can someone point me at wherever it was discussed?

Multiplying weapon damage makes weapon choice too important.  It incentivizes the use of high damage weapons and punishes those who choose low damage weapons because they fit their character concept.

Then combine 2e weapon speed with multiple attacks so multiple attacks measure speed. A dagger would come close to giving a 1st level character multiple attacks. At 2nd level character might have multiple attacks with a dagger while not having multiple attacks with a greatsword until later depending on how the character boost their attack speed. Basically attack speed + weapon speed gives you a multiple attack every ten points.

Multiple attacks don't take that long to do. Just don't go crazy with status effects or sheer numbers (5/6/7). 2 or 3 would be the most you really get maybe 4 at high level and if you are a dual wielder.

1 at 1,2 at 7, 3 at 14 and an extra one if you dual wield.

Just watch any combat expert fight, be it an army soldier, a martial artist, a swordsman or whatever.

They don't "charge-up" a mighty blow and unleash it with the fury of Hercules.
They move fast, with precision and are able to deliver several good blows where an amateur would fumble with his own blows trying to react so quickly.

RPG rules need not be realistic, but they should give you at least a general feel of what's happening so as to attune with your own imagination of the scene being played.


One could argue that a single big damage could represent several placed blows, since damage and HP are abstractions.
But that doesn't cut for me.
It takes away too much immersion. When I see a hihgly skilled warrior rolling several attacks, maybe missing some and hiting some, it feels much more real to me as I imagine the scene than one big blow that is a complete miss to no damage or a hit with huge damage.
That inevitably leads me to imagine the Hulk unleashing a tremendous, inhuman blow or something like that and I would have to force myself to imagine the scene otherwise.
So from an immersion perspective, the MDD system is terrible.


Besides...
From my own years-long experience with AD&D, 3ed and Pathfinder, I have never seen the problems described here with wepons such as "everyone choosing the same weapon" or "when multiple-attacks factor in one weapon gives enourmous advantage over the other for rolling a d8 instead of d6."

Sure there were some neglected weapons, but do tweak them, then.
Sure there were flaws in the multiple-attacks system (like TWF being overpowered in high levels), but do adjust that.

Do not throw away an entire set of rules that was working pretty well and trade it for one that is weird, hard to picture in your imagination, breaks immersion, and causes several "side-effect" problems in the general rules such as Ability damage modifiers and weapon damage dice becoming irrelevant.

Jan 3, 2013 -- 5:53AM, Garthanos wrote:

Jan 3, 2013 -- 5:44AM, Rastapopoulos wrote:

Just watch any combat expert fight, be it an army soldier, a martial artist, a swordsman or whatever.

They don't "charge-up" a mighty blow and unleash it with the fury of Hercules. 

Rolling a die for every beat/parry/stroke/feint etc is heavy handed rediculous D&D has always simplified putting too much rolling every to hit would be on the order of 18 rolls per player for a 6 second turn.
 
They also dont throw that huge haymaker from the floor (movie scene finale) every round after round randomly hoping that it works... they keep their eyes open looking for an opening... but tying it only to critical hit dashes tactics/strategy in the dirt.

Sorry but your description does not match any D&D gameplay I know, since I have never seen a player roll 18 dice in a turn (unless it's a high-level spell which is not what's being discussed).

Suppose a 3ed fighter at level 11 with 3 attacks per round.
That's 3 d20 rolled for hit, and 3 damage dice rolled if all attacks do hit, going for a total of 6 rolls maximum.

I even had a house-rule for parry, where you could "spend" one attack to roll a To Hit for parrying an attack as a reaction.
Even then there's no added roll, since you were forfeiting one of your attacks (and that's even one less damage roll).

TWF with its many extra attacks did lead to excessive rolls and unbalanced damage. But that was a problem with 3.5's TWF, not with the multi-attack system itself.


Besides, rolling dice is fun, it's part of the game, as long as you're not casting 30-dice spells every round, but that's far from the reality of average gameplay (and if some rule is leading to that you adjust that detail in the rules).

Have 3 attacks per round?
Sure, grab those 3 d20 in your hand and throw them at the table.
And if that makes each player's turn last 10 or 15 more seconds to be resolve so what?
I'm not in a hurry to "get things done with." This feels like MMO mentality to me.
All that is part of the fun to me.


And if anything, 5ed as it is now is adding even more dice rolls, with all those MDD dice, the Skill dice, the extra die for advantage/disadvantage...
Even so it does not bother me, cause rolling dice (to a certain ammount), as I said, to me is fun.

What is bothering me is the MDD system itself and the removal of multiple attacks, despite whatever number of dice rolled.