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Dungeons & Dra.. What's a DM to Do? How can I keep this god's evil alignment secret...
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Switch to Forum Live View How can I keep this god's evil alignment secret from a paladin?
5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 11:24AM #21
mvincent
Date Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 8,291

Jan 2, 2013 -- 2:29PM, Salla wrote:

there are a few magic items that conceal alignment.


A god could probably afford a Ring of Mind Shielding or the Undetectable Alignment spell. But as mentioned: Gods can do stuff stronger than this without much effort. Example: Orcus (a Chaos deity) masqueraded for a time as Primus (a deity of Law).

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 11:46AM #22
Salla
Date Joined: Apr 3, 2003
Posts: 23,525

Jan 3, 2013 -- 11:10AM, Matyr wrote:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Kill all orcs?  I think you would be hardpressed to find places where that isn't labeled a good thing.




I would be hard-pressed to ever find a place where genocide is ever a good thing.

Seems like most of the times that "good guys" come in contact with orcs that is actually the exact reaction they have.  I actually am having a hard time coming up with (although I know it has to exist) a good example of a time where orcs are not killed on sight be good guy characters.




Because just because it's an orc doesn't mean it's evil.  ANY sapient creature can determine its own path in life.  There's no such thing as an 'evil race', only evil individuals who happen to be members of that race.

Do I, the player, think it is a little messed up that we have so many "evil" races that are auto-kill on sight and that many of the "good guys" would completely wipe them out if given have a chance, yeah.




That officially makes them 'not good guys' in my personal book.

  But the character thinks that killing all the evil things is for the greater good.




See previous statement about sapient creatures and free will.

Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 12:03PM #23
Diachronos
Date Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 183
Why even bother worrying about how to hide it? This is a GOD we're talking about. With his power, hiding the truth from a mortal would be effortless.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 12:52PM #24
Kinsaud
Date Joined: Dec 3, 2011
Posts: 32
The paladin is actually a Paladin of Luna, the Moon God. and yes, all my gods are homebrew. so the "paladin is evil" thing isnt really a problem .
 
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 12:57PM #25
Centauri
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 9,714
Let the player in on it, and work with him or her on how to keep it secret from the character.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 1:38PM #26
rednblack
Date Joined: Oct 15, 2012
Posts: 300
The problem with A-Ha moments like this is that if you drop too many clues, the player will figure it out and react accordingly.  Too few clues, and the reveal seems like a gotcha, and that isn't any fun either.  Twists are cool when they make the previously chaotic looking jumble of information make sense, but they're really lame when they exist only to surprise the viewer.  There's also the question of what the "viewer" is since your player's PC is a flesh-and-blood inhabitant of the world.  

So, to answer your question, no I don't think that the Paladin's Detect Evil should work on an evil deity mascarading as a good deity, but I'd double check your premise, just to make sure it registers on the fun meter. 
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 2:05PM #27
TheOneWhoCallCrow
Date Joined: May 14, 2010
Posts: 1,555
Just use a magic item to conceal, not a big deal. 

 
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 4:04PM #28
Baphogoat
Date Joined: Oct 23, 2008
Posts: 633
No need to justify you hidding the Gods alignment by giving it a magic item.  If an evil god masquerading as a good god can't even hid it from a 1st level paladin then why is he even trying?  Just have his alignment undetectable by magical means, though his actions may give hints to those that are aware of them.  If the god being evil is a big part of the campaign, something that the players need to figure out before they can take significant action against the god, then dont share this with the players unless the character have seen enough to figure it out.

I do agree that these big reveling moments can be hard to design, because the clues dropped may not have been grasped by the players or are to vague, or the clues become obvious to quickly.  Or if it is over a long period of time maybe the players have just forgotten what the characters know, details do tend to fade away, especially if the story does not move forward quickly.

My advice here is to start with very vague or even confusing clues that might not make sense to the players.  I often create something to give the players, something that is tangible, this allows them to look back at things they have found in the past, and might help them to connect the dots on a picture that otherwise might be inperceptable when looking at the dots individually.  Start to give them clues that become more and more clear when you get towards the part of the campaign when you want them to know for sure.  If they figure it out earlier, then great, they can take action earlier against the god and his cult (see below).

Maybe they run into that cult of the god that betrays his true alignment, by claiming to follow the true god and acting in more obviously evil ways - but the players only get an inkling of the truth behind this statement because the rest of the world worships the good 'version' of the god, and might believe this cult to be twisted and wrong.  Then when the cult starts to grow in power, popping up in more places and begin to gain more influence in the world the players might start to think that they are the true followers and the god they believe to be good is in fact deceiving them and the rest of the world.
"The great epochs of our life come when we gain the courage to rechristen our evil as what is best in us." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2013 - 4:11PM #29
SvenTheBlowfish
Date Joined: Jan 13, 2012
Posts: 27
I think the biggest concern you have is not pissing your player off when I finds out you've been manipulating him the whole time.  The worst sort of DM is one that controls the players more than they control themselves.  Often give the paladin clues to figure out that something is amiss, and I would suggest introducing him to the truth sooner rather than later.

Good luck!
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 04, 2013 - 2:17PM #30
Centauri
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 9,714

Jan 3, 2013 -- 4:11PM, SvenTheBlowfish wrote:

I think the biggest concern you have is not pissing your player off when I finds out you've been manipulating him the whole time.  The worst sort of DM is one that controls the players more than they control themselves.  Often give the paladin clues to figure out that something is amiss, and I would suggest introducing him to the truth sooner rather than later.

Good luck!


This is what my recommendation is intended to avoid. And bringing the player in on it provides at least one additional brain to make the deception on the character even cooler.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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Dungeons & Dra.. What's a DM to Do? How can I keep this god's evil alignment secret...
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