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Switch to Forum Live View How to improve the Ability Score system?
5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 11:56AM #1
Rastapopoulos
Date Joined: Jan 2, 2013
Posts: 627

I've always been a home-brewer when it came to D&D and I've toyed with several house rules to alter D&D core rules to my tastes.

However, there is something that has always been that itch in my back that I can't reach to scratch.
And it's the Ability Score system, more precisely something about the Ability Scores system.

It's nothing game-breaking, and the system as it is has worked well for me since I started playing 3ed.
But it has a slight "flaw" that has always bugged me, and I've tried to improved it many times with no satisfactory success. 


Odd numbers are completely useless!


You raise an Ability from 14 to 15, or from 12 to 13, and get... nothing! Absolutely nothing!

The very best you could get from an odd Ability Score was meeting some pre-requisite for a feat, such as Dodge or Two-Weapon Fighting.
But that's hardly satisfatory for a player gaining an Ability Point or spending their points at character creation.

It feels more like "oh well, I have to waste an Ability point here and put this 15 on Dex instead of 14 just to get Two-Weapon Fighting"... where raising an Ability Score should be something like "Wow! Great! I had 14 Dex and now I have 15!!!!!!!! Hell yeah!"

The unified Score/Modifier system of 3ed was a great improvement from the random modifiers from AD&D, no doubt, but it still left half of the possible Ability values practicaly useless.

And it seems 5ed is maintaining the exact same system, which as I said is not bad, but I'd love to see some improvement.
When first I read that 5ed would be more "Ability Score-focused" I hoped they had finally found a solution to that, or that Ability Scores would now perhaps work entirely different when adjusting rolls, or maybe a mix of AD&D and 3ed; but it seems the 3ed system remains intact here.


Has anyone ever toyed with house rules to work around that?
Come up with a system that could make every Ability point really count?


If so, please share with us. And who knows? Perhaps it could even lend the developers of 5ed some fresh ideas.


-------

Here's what I've already tried (and none of that pleased me):

* Every point gives +1/-1
So a 15 would give you +5, where an 11 would give +1 and a 9 -1.
It removes the dead weight in ability scores, but...
The problem here is obvious. If basic Scores go up to 18, you could easily have a +8 which would be way too much.

* So make 15 the new 18
The "human top" number would be 15 (+5 is more reasonable than +8 already) instead of 18.
Otherwise it works like the system above. Every point gives +1/-1.
Monster abilities would have to be adjusted as well. Say, a giant's Str of 36 would have to be scale to a 23 or 25.
The problem here, to me, is that 18 has always been a magic number in D&D since time immemorial! And as an D&D player/DM of long time, losing the magical 18 as the high point of reference would simply make the game not feel like D&D somehow.

* Divide bonuses between odd and even numbers.
Say for example, Str confers a bonus to DMG at values 11, 13, 15, etc.
And a bonus to TH at values 12, 14, 16, 18, etc.
It keeps the balance of numerical values already in the game, but it's a "meh" solution at best, not really worthy the trouble of adapting the rules just for that.

* AD&D 2nd edition's Proficiency system made full use of Ability Scores.
Each point you had in an Ability counted for the Proficiency check, but it was too simple and limited a system (and kinda weird as it was a roll-under system).
I've thought about mixing that up with some general 3ed rules but also came up with nothing satisfactory.




So has anyone else felt that itch and strugled with coming up with a solution?

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 12:06PM #2
Miladoon
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 1,548
I said BAH to the d20 role for everything.  BAH!

I still keep d100 in my game.  I give 5% bonus per Ability above 12.

I like my homebrew.

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 12:12PM #3
Saelorn
Date Joined: May 27, 2012
Posts: 2,955
Whenever possible, I use the AD&D-style ability score checks in place of the ability modifier checks.  It really helps to highlight the difference between a 6 and a 16.

Of course, I use them in the obvious way: (d20 + ability score) vs DC, where DC ranges from 10 to 25.
The metagame is not the game.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 12:24PM #4
Trance-Zg
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 451
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

so we dont have 2 topics on same subject.


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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 12:34PM #5
Lawolf
Date Joined: May 4, 2008
Posts: 4,257
Have ability scores not apply to attack rolls. Then +1 per point above 10 works.

Have attack rolls and AC determined by a combatants skill (class and level).  Ability scores still apply to damage rolls though.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 1:05PM #6
kezzek
Date Joined: Jun 22, 2008
Posts: 1,198
Seems this gets discussed frequently.  I am in the camp that prefers getting rid of odd scores.  Too many characters start with all even scores (or as many as possible) since most players aren't certain how long a campaign will last and want to survive until they reach higher levels.

3rd edition generally had mostly even ability scores for characters since players generally only raised 1 score across multiple levels.

I agree that 15 could easily be the max score.  Just change the point buy system and change the bonus to ability scores to be +1 to 2 scores at 8th level and 16th level.

I don't like ability bonuses for races and classes since they dilute the opportunity to play unconventional combinations.  Not every high elf needs to be an intelligent wizard and not every halfling needs to b e a dextrous rogue.  Why offer a half dozen classes, races, and ability scores if you end up with 6 possible stereotypes that are encouraged through bonuses and penalties.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 1:21PM #7
Jenks
Date Joined: Apr 4, 2008
Posts: 2,497
Odd numbers are not completely useless. Higher numbers give the developers more leeway when giving out bonuses to ability scores. There, I found a use
My two copper.



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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 1:29PM #8
Orzel
Date Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Posts: 3,228
Make Ability Scores matter when it comes to certain mechanics.

Easy as pie.
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.

Constitution Based Class for Next!
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 1:30PM #9
Lawolf
Date Joined: May 4, 2008
Posts: 4,257
Or just remove ability score bonuses altogether as they serve very little purpose and cause more harm than good.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2013 - 1:41PM #10
GEBELL
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2010
Posts: 224

unforutnately ability scores seem to be 'core' and untouchable in DDN.  They really form an achilles heel for a lot of desing mechanics, in my opinion.  I think another problem with them, thematically, is that strong, smart, fast, handsome and durable.  We aren't used to high fantasy heroes having 'weaknesses' in the sense of ability scores.  We are used to them having weaknesses from a skill perspective. 


It will be interesting to see how this develops.  I wish they had taken the chance very early in these playtests to toy around with completely different ability systems. 

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