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5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 6:50AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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It should be made clear that those of us in favor of a stronger kobold-dragon connection and a family of Dragonfolk that Lizardfolk and Dragonfolk are not the same thing.
We are in agreement, yes?
Just checking.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 6:55AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2006
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The key word for kobolds is cunningly. They are weak and they know it, but they make up for it with slyness. They are the evil McGyver of D&D.  I have found this image:  I like that ape snout. I don´t like those ridiculous lizard heads like from children cartoons. Kobolds aren´t evil cousins of Wally Wator (Hanna-Barbera´s character). I imagine D&D kobolds like reptilians baboons, closer to AD&D look, like a mixture of gremlims (80´s movie) and kobolds from capcom AD&D arcades (tower of doom and shadow over mystara). www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhAWfVmnV38
"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)
Book 13 Anaclet 23
Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"
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5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 7:01AM
#23
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It should be made clear that those of us in favor of a stronger kobold-dragon connection and a family of Dragonfolk that Lizardfolk and Dragonfolk are not the same thing.
We are in agreement, yes?
Just checking.
*shrug*
I could see them in the tree somewhere. Something like...
Dragon -> missing link -> dragonborn -> missing link -> kobolds -> missing link -> lizardfolk.
Thus lizard folk are very far removed from dragons, but not too far from kobolds.
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 7:16AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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See, I don't like the "missing link" connection between kobolds and lizardfolk, because it implies a more direct evolution. I would rather it be more branching, like how we humans are actually fairly closely related to lemurs, but the common ancestor is still a good ways back.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 7:16AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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I would actually really not mind seeing Dragonborn and Kobolds integrated into the same "family", like we have with the various types of Lizardfolk, or (with more dramatic differences) like we have with goblinoids (goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears).
I do so like monster families. 
While I'm not a fan of how kobolds do not resemble historical lore (they are germanic house sprites, not scaly underground dogs), I'd be happy with a similar family grouping for Lizardfolk and Dragonfolk. If dwarves can have their "gully" version, then I guess kobolds could be the "gully dragon" of D&D.
Agreed. Lizardfolk, kobolds, and dragonborn should be one (albeit dysfunctional) family. I would love it if all 3 were options for characters.
dragonborn would be the noble and intelligent ones.
lizardfolk would be the dumb powerful brutes.
kobolds would be the small, cunning, sneaky ones.
of course a character could break the mold and escape the stereotype with any of them.
i like it when races are type cast to certain classes but the rules are built so characters can escape stereotypes (dwarf wizards, halfling fighters, Orc bards, etc.)
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5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 7:28AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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I would actually really not mind seeing Dragonborn and Kobolds integrated into the same "family", like we have with the various types of Lizardfolk, or (with more dramatic differences) like we have with goblinoids (goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears).
I do so like monster families.
While I'm not a fan of how kobolds do not resemble historical lore (they are germanic house sprites, not scaly underground dogs), I'd be happy with a similar family grouping for Lizardfolk and Dragonfolk. If dwarves can have their "gully" version, then I guess kobolds could be the "gully dragon" of D&D.
Agreed. Lizardfolk, kobolds, and dragonborn should be one (albeit dysfunctional) family. I would love it if all 3 were options for characters.
dragonborn would be the noble and intelligent ones.
lizardfolk would be the dumb powerful brutes.
kobolds would be the small, cunning, sneaky ones.
of course a character could break the mold and escape the stereotype with any of them.
i like it when races are type cast to certain classes but the rules are built so characters can escape stereotypes (dwarf wizards, halfling fighters, Orc bards, etc.)
I wouldn't lump lizardfolk in with dragons, because they are distinctly different, IMO. My suggestion was to have a separate "lizardfolk" family, AND a "dragonfolk" family, with kobolds and dragonborn being related, following a similar pattern as the goblins. I liked how the Draconomicon (I think that was 2e) described dragons as more akin to felines than lizards. Hmm, maybe the catfolk should have its own family as well...
Magic Dual Color Test
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5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 7:33AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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I wouldn't lump lizardfolk in with dragons, because they are distinctly different, IMO. My suggestion was to have a separate "lizardfolk" family, AND a "dragonfolk" family, with kobolds and dragonborn being related, following a similar pattern as the goblins. I liked how the Draconomicon (I think that was 2e) described dragons as more akin to felines than lizards. Hmm, maybe the catfolk should have its own family as well...
Draconomicon was 3e.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 7:34AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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One of my favorite books in the set, actually.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 7:39AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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I would actually really not mind seeing Dragonborn and Kobolds integrated into the same "family", like we have with the various types of Lizardfolk, or (with more dramatic differences) like we have with goblinoids (goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears).
I do so like monster families.
While I'm not a fan of how kobolds do not resemble historical lore (they are germanic house sprites, not scaly underground dogs), I'd be happy with a similar family grouping for Lizardfolk and Dragonfolk. If dwarves can have their "gully" version, then I guess kobolds could be the "gully dragon" of D&D.
Agreed. Lizardfolk, kobolds, and dragonborn should be one (albeit dysfunctional) family. I would love it if all 3 were options for characters.
dragonborn would be the noble and intelligent ones.
lizardfolk would be the dumb powerful brutes.
kobolds would be the small, cunning, sneaky ones.
of course a character could break the mold and escape the stereotype with any of them.
i like it when races are type cast to certain classes but the rules are built so characters can escape stereotypes (dwarf wizards, halfling fighters, Orc bards, etc.)
I wouldn't lump lizardfolk in with dragons, because they are distinctly different, IMO. My suggestion was to have a separate "lizardfolk" family, AND a "dragonfolk" family, with kobolds and dragonborn being related, following a similar pattern as the goblins. I liked how the Draconomicon (I think that was 2e) described dragons as more akin to felines than lizards. Hmm, maybe the catfolk should have its own family as well...
I like the elegance of larger more inclusive groupings.
I would like the following character options:
human: + halfling and dwarf
Elven: drow, high, wood
Dragonic: lizardfolk, kobold, dragonborn
Goblinoid: goblin, Orc
+ system for making hybrids (half elves, half orcs, mongrelfolk)
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5 months ago ::
Jan 02, 2013 - 7:46AM
#30
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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Humans like to catagorize things.
Now how to make that fairer? hmmmmm
I am in the Dragons are not lizards camp.
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