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5 months ago ::
Jan 01, 2013 - 2:48PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Feb 28, 2008
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Hello everyone!
I am finally in the process of using this new packet (first attempt at the Playtest for us) and this is the first thing that made me pause...
Magic Items.
LOVE the flavor of everything and that they truly seem MAGIC again. Bravo.
But where is the item progression? I think we (my players and I) are used to seeing the +1/+2/+3 etc. longsword (regardless of special properties) as we go along. Always something to look forward to as the items scaled along with you most times. Is there just the +1 item that, although awesome, becomes +3 when attuned and then that's it?
Is this intent still present? Again, love the items included in the magic item list, but there is a line that states: A basic suit of armor is +1 and higher bonuses are unusual. I get that the DM can MAKE a +2 longsword of inbetween-ness for his party, but I find it odd that it is lacking.
If this has been discussed before, I apologize, but does anyone know the intent of magic item progression?
Thanks so much and Happy New Year to my fellow DMs and players!
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5 months ago ::
Jan 01, 2013 - 3:54PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2012
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May you have a happy new year as well.
Don't forget this is still a playtest. I'm sure the final version will include many more items (including +2 ones), but the intent is here to stay.
The basic magic item is of +1 bonus. An item with a higher bonus will also have special abilities (attunable or otherwise), there will never be +2 or +3 items with just the bonus.
The list of items atm includes only the powerful +3 items, as it is they that must be tested and balanced. There's nothing to fine-tune in a +1 item with no special abilities, and once you have fine-tuned the most powerful +3 items, intermediate +2 ones are easier to introduce at the appropriate power level.
As the DM, you can of course introduce a +2 item, but to be consistent with the game's spirit, it should also have some special ability.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 01, 2013 - 5:08PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2012
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alright, so they have stated that
a) they are making magic items not the default
b) they are trying to avoid +x weapons
my take on it is that item effect and +x bonus are seperate. the +x comes from the physical structure and construction of the weapon (so time to improve on the masterwork weapon) so completely non magical, just well built. and the magical effects are the magical enhancements placed on the weapon.
i have no restriction on 'at least masterwork items are required to enchant' but in general would you really waste your magical enchantment on a rusted dagger?
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5 months ago ::
Jan 01, 2013 - 5:41PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Nov 10, 2011
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Its also helpful to remember that they are using "bounded accuracy" now. I.E. The average high level monster will have much the same AC as a lower level monster. This means that you don't need to get ever increasing item bonuses to stay balanced (like 4th edition) but it also means that bonuses which are too high will break the monster math. I dont know how they will deal with magic item progression but as people mentioned above it will probably not be with higher +x bonuses.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 01, 2013 - 5:49PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Feb 28, 2008
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Thank you for the replies!
I went ahead (didn't know the term beforehand, so my search didn't yield the appropriate results) and read up on the bounded accuracy debate. Wow.
I actually agree with most of that article, and love the ensuing debate by the community here. We have some passionate and well-spoken fans! I love it!!
Does anyone else feel that the "flavor" options (origin, materials, etc.) are meant to take the place of +1/+2/+3 in this case? In other words, do I have my players questing to get that same +1 Flametongue, but this new weapon has some extra added flair to make it more interesting? Granted, my storytelling and the campain affect all of this, but I think you see my point.
Thoughts?
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5 months ago ::
Jan 01, 2013 - 11:08PM
#6
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The idea in Next is that once you have a magic item, you don't let it go. Once you have a magically flaming sword, you don't need to go questing for the same thing but better. Instead you go questing for a magically freezing sword to go with it. Then a lightning sword, an acid sword, a psychic sword, and when you get bored of swords, you look for nightvision goggles, cloaks of resistance, a hat of disguise, gloves of rage, a mouthguard of enhanced spitting distance... It's super easy to churn out magic items that enhance the players without being just upgrades. In the worst case scenario, players will have to choose which of their eight pairs of magic panties they wear today, and that's the sort of wardrobe decision that keeps games interesting.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 07, 2013 - 7:01AM
#7
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The idea in Next is that once you have a magic item, you don't let it go. Once you have a magically flaming sword, you don't need to go questing for the same thing but better. Instead you go questing for a magically freezing sword to go with it. Then a lightning sword, an acid sword, a psychic sword, and when you get bored of swords, you look for nightvision goggles, cloaks of resistance, a hat of disguise, gloves of rage, a mouthguard of enhanced spitting distance...
I was hoping they do rules for "long, family magic weapon" thing, you know, sword that on levels 1-5 gives you just +1, but on levels 6-10 starts to add fire damage. The thing to make magic weapon truly unique, but also "progressivly" better, so to stick not to "Sword of Flames" but "Ilurdrin, Flame Fury". This is what I was hoping with whole attuning thing was... 
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5 months ago ::
Jan 07, 2013 - 8:45AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2012
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The idea in Next is that once you have a magic item, you don't let it go. Once you have a magically flaming sword, you don't need to go questing for the same thing but better. Instead you go questing for a magically freezing sword to go with it. Then a lightning sword, an acid sword, a psychic sword, and when you get bored of swords, you look for nightvision goggles, cloaks of resistance, a hat of disguise, gloves of rage, a mouthguard of enhanced spitting distance... It's super easy to churn out magic items that enhance the players without being just upgrades. In the worst case scenario, players will have to choose which of their eight pairs of magic panties they wear today, and that's the sort of wardrobe decision that keeps games interesting.
Ooooo dress up for D&D! :D
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 6:47PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2011
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I'm fairly glad they're starting to look for ways around the +X scale for magic weapons for one specific reason.
If we introduce +X back into the loop then we have the same issues with monsters and players as before; scaling. Wizards will then need to scale their monsters in accordance with how high weapons can reach (up to +5 or +6, I can't recall at the moment), otherwise the monsters will be steamrolled into the grid by people who have these weapons, and no doubt they probably will because, at the moment, it's the norm to give players these +X weapons as they progress through levels. But then the problem arises that people who don't have these weapons become mundane as they either can't hit AC due to not having the extra +X, or they don't deal as much damage to monsters.
I absolutely, and I mean ABSOLUTELY, love the way magic items work in Next. I love how flavorful items can be as Dwarven weapons aren't destroyed so easily, or how Giant weapons are larger like it's Final Fantasy, or how Drow weapons take damage in sunlight. I love how weapons can present themselves with these great innate abilities that players have to seek out themselves. I love how I can give my players items that they can grow attached to and not just look at them as stat sticks.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 8:52PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jan 30, 2012
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I'm a huge fan of the direction magic items are moving in next, especially with flavor. The extra minor abilities and creation backgrounds are pretty boss too. The fact that you may never know all of your item's properties is just fantastic and keeps things magical. It actually allows for interesting things to happen at key moments that no one expected, which is a great part of storytelling.
I was hoping they do rules for "long, family magic weapon" thing, you know, sword that on levels 1-5 gives you just +1, but on levels 6-10 starts to add fire damage. The thing to make magic weapon truly unique, but also "progressivly" better, so to stick not to "Sword of Flames" but "Ilurdrin, Flame Fury". This is what I was hoping with whole attuning thing was...
I like that idea too, and I am thinking of incorporating something similar in my games. I really liked the idea behind legacy weapons in 3.5e, but the implementation was very unimpressive to me. The idea though, combined with what Next already has, is something I want in my games.
I was thinking everyone in my game will have ONE magic item that grows more powerful as they do. They won't know what properties it will gain. It will always be either things that really work with their character concept, rather its class, race, philosophy, makes sense with the item, or things that have extreme cool factor. They'll gain a few other magic items here and there too, but not many.
Key parts of the story will increase one character's item somehow, someway. Perhaps it absorbed the essence of blah blah blah, or it's just now trusting their companion more to show him or her more power, etc. For a warrior, maybe its a sword. Maybe its a shield. Maybe its a suit of armor. Maybe it started as a sword, but it can turn into a rapier OR a club, once it trusts you more. After a quest in the plane of fire, the sword could gain the ability to catch itself on fire, and do an extra few points of fire based damage. After fighting many devils, it could "learn" how to combat them more, hitting devils more often.
I also want to make it so that each item is a quest in and of itself to get. In my world, many famous and infamous adventurers, end up with one signature weapon of this type. It's part of their character. It's part of what makes them unique.
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