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5 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 11:02AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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An untyped damage rogue that uses Daggermaster + MC Avenger to do very solid damage in a nova round and okay damage after that. Due to Symbol of Victory, it should have a consistent encounter nova in most games. It frontloads a high enough crit chance(73% of at least one crit) to get solid KPR. Spoiler:
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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Rogue_test, level 12
Human, Rogue (Scoundrel), Daggermaster
Rogue Tactics Option: Cunning Sneak
Rogue Option: Scoundrel Weapon Talent
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)
Theme: Werewolf
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 9, CON 13, DEX 23, INT 13, WIS 15, CHA 11
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 12, DEX 18, INT 12, WIS 12, CHA 10
AC: 27 Fort: 21 Ref: 28 Will: 22
HP: 90 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 22
TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +17, Bluff +11, Dungeoneering +13, Insight +13, Perception +13, Religion +12, Stealth +17, Thievery +17
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +7, Athletics +5, Diplomacy +6, Endurance +7, Heal +8, History +7, Intimidate +8, Nature +8, Streetwise +6
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Werewolf Utility: Wolf Shape
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Avenger Feature: Oath of Enmity
Rogue Attack 1: Piercing Strike
Rogue Attack 1: Deft Strike
Rogue Attack 1: Dazing Strike
Rogue Attack 1: Spinning Blade Leap
Werewolf Utility 2: Wolf's Vitality
Rogue Attack 3: Low Slash
Rogue Attack 3: Shadow Steel Roll
Rogue Attack 5: Bloodbath
Rogue Utility 6: Ignoble Escape
Rogue Attack 7: Circling Predator
Rogue Attack 9: Knockout
Rogue Utility 10: Acrobat's Escape
Daggermaster Attack 11: Critical Opportunity
Daggermaster Utility 12: Meditation of the Blade
FEATS
Light Blade Expertise
Level 1: Cunning Stalker
Level 2: Backstabber
Level 4: Disciple of Divine Wrath
Level 8: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 10: Melee Training (Dexterity)
Level 11: Two-Weapon Opening
Level 11: Reserve Maneuver
Level 12: Weapon Focus (Light blade)
ITEMS
Claw Gloves x1
Bloodiron Dagger +3 x1
Magic Leather Armor +3 x1
Amulet of Protection +3 x1
Symbol of Victory +2 x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Vicious Dagger +2 x1
====== End ======
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
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5 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 11:02AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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Base DPR:
1d4+16+1d10(w/CA) at +23 to hit with CA. Total of 24 on average.
Critical Hit: +3d10 immediately, +3d10 at start of turn. Total of 16.5+16.5 or 33. Max damage = 30, total of 63. On first crit of turn, get a free action MBA.
+6 Dex
+3 Enhancement Bonus
+2 Iron Armbands of Power
+2 Weapon Focus
+1 TWF
+2 Light Blade Expertise(w/CA)
Expected Damage:
With Oath: .99 hits, .28 crits. Or .71 normal hits. 24*.71+63*.28 = 34.7
Odds are that there will be 2.84 hits(.71*4, ignoring that Low Slash attacks Reflex) and 1.12 crits in a 4 attack sequence. 34.7*4 = 138.8.
There will be at least one critical hit 73% of the time and still be a hit 71% of the time when there is no critical hit on the last shot. This means expected sneak attack damage is 24*.73+13.5*.71*(1-.73) or 20.1 damage.
There will be at least one critical hit 73% of the time, and an MBA with a +2 Vicious Dagger is +22 with CA, doing 1d4+13+1d10. With Oath, this represents a 98% to-hit chance, 9.75% of which will be critical hits. .73*(21*.90.25+60*.0975) or 18.1 damage.
138.8+20.1+18.1 = 177 expected damage from the following Nova:
Nova:
Minor: Oath of Enmity
Standard: Shadow Steel Roll Shift Speed(8), make an attack.
Minor: Low Slash
AP: Standard: Ciricling Predator
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Without Oath using Piercing Strike vs. Reflex outside Nova Round
.80 hits/.15 crits (24+13.5)*.80+(63+24)*.15 +.15*(21*.70+60*.15) = 46.6 damage
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
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5 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 11:02AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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Notes:
I don't yet have Superior Will, Improved Initiative, Superior Reflexes, Nimble Blade, and Two-Weapon Defense is low-hanging fruit. Feats are tough. The problems with feats won't likely clear up in Epic, either.
The build should be a bit tougher than expected given defenses - the utility 2 for Regen 4 when bloodied is reasonably easy to trigger.
At 13th, should be able to pick up one of the various Sky Blue encounter options by exchanging Dazing Strike for Vaulting Charge or Shadow Steel Roll and then using Reserve Maneuver to pick up Darting Strike, Startling Offensive, or Snap Shot.
Feats still needed:
Superior Will, Improved Initiative, Superior Reflexes, Nimble Blade, Two-Weapon Defense, Deft Blade
Items on wish list:
Ring of Giants(13th)
Epic: Divine Mastery = 2nd use of Oath of Enmity. Martial Mastery = 2nd use of Tumbling Strike. i.e. mini-nova on 2nd target on the 2nd round if 1st target dies in the first round.
Feats still needed:
Martial Mastery(2nd use of Tumbling Strike), Divine Mastery(2nd use of Oath of Enmity), Long Step, Improved Initiative -> Superior Initiative
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
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5 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 11:03AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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8th level version: Spoiler:
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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Rogue_test, level 8
Human, Rogue (Scoundrel)
Rogue Tactics Option: Cunning Sneak
Rogue Option: Scoundrel Weapon Talent
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)
Theme: Samurai
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 12, DEX 22, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 10
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 12, DEX 18, INT 12, WIS 12, CHA 10
AC: 24 Fort: 17 Ref: 24 Will: 18
HP: 69 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 17
TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +15, Athletics +8, Dungeoneering +11, Insight +11, Perception +11, Religion +10, Stealth +15, Thievery +15
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +5, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +6, Endurance +5, Heal +6, History +5, Intimidate +6, Nature +6, Streetwise +4
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Samurai Utility: Iaijutsu
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Avenger Feature: Oath of Enmity
Rogue Attack 1: Piercing Strike
Rogue Attack 1: Deft Strike
Rogue Attack 1: Dazing Strike
Rogue Attack 1: Press the Advantage
Rogue Utility 2: Agile Footwork
Rogue Attack 3: Low Slash
Rogue Attack 5: Bloodbath
Rogue Utility 6: Ignoble Escape
Rogue Attack 7: Circling Predator
FEATS
Level 1: Improved Initiative
Level 1: Light Blade Expertise
Level 2: Cunning Stalker
Level 4: Disciple of Divine Wrath
Level 6: Backstabber
Level 8: Two Weapon Fighting
ITEMS
Symbol of Victory +2 x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Amulet of Protection +1 x1
Veteran's Leather Armor +1 x1
Quicksilver Blade Dagger +2 x1
Shielding Blade Dagger +1 x1
====== End ======
A variant of my untyped damage rogue optimized around Heroic tier. Basic assumption is that you'll be able to retrain out of the theme once you hit Paragon and go into Daggermaster as the Paragon Path option. The goal of the build is to win initiative against all enemies(+16 at level 8), shift 3 squares before going, and therefore be able to critical hit on an 18-20. You then do the following on round 1, hopefully to a nearby frontline enemy: Minor: Oath of Enmity AP: Standard: Deft Strike - move 2, strike Standard: Circling Predator Minor: Low Slash +20 vs AC with CA+Vet's Armor, so hits on a 2, 0 for Low Slash. 99.75% hitting. .28 crit chance if won init against all enemies, .975 if not. Do 1d4+12, 16+2d6 on crit with 1w attacks. Chance of at least 1 crit = 73%. Sneak does 2d8 or average of 9. So... (14.5*.7175)*4+(23*.28)*4+.73*16+.27*.7175*9 = 80.8 damage. Because the build spent an action point, it gains +1 to hit, defenses, so on round 1, it has a solid AC = level+17, and some options to escape once it pulls off the nova. Obviously, if leveled up organically has some better items to choose than the ones I took.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 11:17AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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Done. Thoughts? Mostly a thought experiment about how to not use Frost damage.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 11:42AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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Bloodiron will almost never trigger.
How about wraithblade instead?
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5 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 12:43PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2011
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Your Nova is 45? Yikes...
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5 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 12:46PM
#8
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There must be a typo. Rogues should be hitting for about that much at will with Piercing Strike.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 12:47PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Nov 23, 2003
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Bloodiron will almost never trigger.
I've seen bloodiron trigger rather regularly. It does require substantial metagaming though.
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
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5 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 12:51PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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Your Nova is 45? Yikes...
I believe that's at-will DPR. Nova is 181.9.
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