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Switch to Forum Live View Positive Mechanics from 4E that the Devs have missed
5 months ago  ::  Dec 31, 2012 - 6:49AM #11
Arithezoo
Date Joined: Aug 31, 2008
Posts: 3,289
Good ideas so far.  Before I get into my own, I would like to point a few things out:

1) Bloodied mechanic.  This is in D&D Next, under one of the options for healing.  No reason you can't use it with any other healing options (I use the standard healing and also the bloodied condition).  Currently there aren't things that key off bloodied, but that makes sense as it is optional.

2) Minions.  This is also in D&D Next, just not exactly the same.  Many low level monsters have so few hit points that they will be killed in one hit.  Also, every monster lists average damage so you don't have to roll if you don't want.  What would be nice is for the DMG to talk about counting low level monsters as having 1 hp.  Perhaps some sort of level threshold: monsters more than 5 levels lower than the PCs count as minions and are considered to have 1 hp.
I don't care as much for the whole "No damage on a miss" aspect.  Especially when it comes to daily powers...I feel if you are bringing out a daily, the minions should go down.  Even something like Glancing Blow...the Fighter is still using his action to take out a single minion, when he could be bringing some serious pain to the big bad.  That minion did his job.

3) Striker Mechanics.  Sneak attack and Martial Damage Dice serve this role.  Next takes a step forward, in that you don't need to use either.  You can make a rogue without sneak attack, and you can make a fighter who never uses his dice for extra damage.

4) Powers.  Between spells, maneuvers, and skill tricks, it is pretty clear that powers are here to stay.

5) Cleaner, simple rules.  This is subjective I know, but I find the rules for Next very simple and streamlined.  I have been able to run every session without looking up a single rule.

6) XP Encounter design.  Next has this.  Might need some tweaking of the numbers, but it is there.

7) Healing as a class feature.  While it doesn't work in the same way, this concept is still there.  All healing spells are (cue reverb) WORDS....OF....POWER!  You can cast them and still attack or take another action (in 4E terms, a minor action).  In addition, one of the Channel Divinity powers allows you to cure your allies.  You don't get a healing mechanic 2/encounter, but I don't think that specific number is the important part.  The point is that you can heal AND do something else.

8) Monsters do not follow PC rules.  While monsters use the core mechanic of checks and saves, other aspects of their statblock doesn't conform to PC rules.  They don't get feats, and their attack bonus is higher than their stats would indicate.  However, I would like to see more done here.  Damage and AC are still following the same rules that PCs use.  This is fine, but it means we will need more complex guidelines regarding customizing and creating new monsters.  For example, how much extra XP would orcs in plate armor be?  What about kobolds with more damaging weapons?  Etc.

Streamlined rules for monster creation/customization is a big thing that I want to see as a DM.

Other things that I would like to see:

1) Warlord.  One of my favorite 4E classes, I really hope this guy makes it into Next.  Expanding from this, just the idea of other classes that can heal (even if the healing works in a different way) is a great idea.

2) Solos that are well made.  This is something 4E struggled with.  It got a lot better toward the end though.  Having just looked up some monsters (Dragons and Dracolich), I see that Next is going in this direction too.  They are immune to paralysis and sleep.  But other big monsters (such as the Pit Fiend), do not have this immunity.  Also, rather than immunity, I think it is more interesting if monsters are resistant.  For example, instead of getting paralyzed, the monster might just be slowed.  If you can hit it with another paralysis effect, it will be immobilized.  A third such effect will paralyze it.  These monsters can also make the check to end such spells in addition to taking a regular action.
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 31, 2012 - 6:50AM #12
Jenks
Date Joined: Apr 4, 2008
Posts: 2,497

Dec 31, 2012 -- 6:37AM, Phobos wrote:

Question on minions, why can't you simply take any monster and give it 1 hit point.  Wasn't this (in general) what a minion was?  Does this need to be stat-ed out?




Yes and no. Minions usually had medium defenses and static damage. It wouldn't be hard to change, but most things you would have to jiggle the numbers a bit.

In next I'm not quite so sure. Perhaps someone can try giving them average damage for their attack instead of rolling, and give them 1 HP. Then report if it works or not Chances are some numbers would probably need to be edited a little bit.

My two copper.



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5 months ago  ::  Dec 31, 2012 - 6:54AM #13
Plaguescarred
Date Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 16,568
I liked how 4E handled Disease format with stages to worsen, stable or get better based on DC checks and hope D&D Next adop a similar format for disease and perhaps even curses or poisoning! 

Also Fantastic Terrain Powers really help make combat more dynamics.  
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 31, 2012 - 6:58AM #14
Snot-Elemental
Date Joined: May 16, 2004
Posts: 348

Dec 31, 2012 -- 6:54AM, Plaguescarred wrote:


Also Fantastic Terrain Powers really help make combat more dynamics.  



1000 x this

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 31, 2012 - 7:00AM #15
Jenks
Date Joined: Apr 4, 2008
Posts: 2,497

Dec 31, 2012 -- 6:54AM, Plaguescarred wrote:

I liked how 4E handled Disease format with stages to worsen, stable or get better based on DC checks and hope D&D Next adop a similar format for disease and perhaps even curses or poisoning! 

Also Fantastic Terrain Powers really help make combat more dynamics.  




Fantastic terrain powers? Can you explain a little? I'm not sure what you are talking about.

My two copper.



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5 months ago  ::  Dec 31, 2012 - 7:04AM #16
Plaguescarred
Date Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 16,568
Here's some  exemples of a Terrain Powers:


Lightning Pillar Strike
At your command, lightning lashes out from an ancient stone monolith.
Standard Action
Requirement: You must be within 5 squares of a lightning pillar.
Check: Arcana, Nature, or Religion check (hard DC) to trigger the pillar’s attack.
Success: You activate the lightning pillar.
Target: One creature you choose in a close burst 5
Attack: Level + 3 vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d6 + one-half level lightning damage.

Published in Dark Sun Creature Catalog, page(s) 135. 


Brazier
This brazier burns brightly and hot. Tipping its iron stand sends blazing coals over nearby foes.
Standard Action
Requirement: You must be adjacent to a brazier.
Check: Strength check (DC 20) to overturn the brazier.
Success: The brazier is overturned, making an attack in a close blast 3.
Target: Each creature in blast
Attack: +18 vs. Reflex
Hit: Ongoing 10 fire damage (save ends).

Published in Dungeon Magazine 177, page(s) 25.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 31, 2012 - 7:05AM #17
Monsieur_Moustache
Date Joined: Aug 13, 2004
Posts: 1,505

Dec 31, 2012 -- 6:49AM, Arithezoo wrote:

7) Healing as a class feature.  While it doesn't work in the same way, this concept is still there.  All healing spells are (cue reverb) WORDS....OF....POWER!  You can cast them and still attack or take another action (in 4E terms, a minor action).  In addition, one of the Channel Divinity powers allows you to cure your allies.  You don't get a healing mechanic 2/encounter, but I don't think that specific number is the important part.  The point is that you can heal AND do something else.


I do not agree, you have to reserve a part of your spellcasting to determine your level of healing. If you do not memorize helaing spells, you do not heal anything.

4th edition allowed you to be a competent healer without caring about healing in any other aspect of the character the the concerned class feature. The healing didn't have to be upgraded or handled between X spell levels and X spells number. It took one minor action per cast, and you were able to cast any spell or make any kind attack during this, not just a crappy basic attack to feel less in a healing bot round.

It totally changes the dynamic of the support classes, alterning between healing bot rounds and the interesting (IMO) rounds.
And 4th edition also allowed people who like full healing profiles to exist too.


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5 months ago  ::  Dec 31, 2012 - 7:08AM #18
Jenks
Date Joined: Apr 4, 2008
Posts: 2,497

Dec 31, 2012 -- 7:04AM, Plaguescarred wrote:

Here's some  exemples of a Terrain Power:


Lightning Pillar Strike
At your command, lightning lashes out from an ancient stone monolith.
Standard Action
Requirement: You must be within 5 squares of a lightning pillar.
Check: Arcana, Nature, or Religion check (hard DC) to trigger the pillar’s attack.
Success: You activate the lightning pillar.
Target: One creature you choose in a close burst 5
Attack: Level + 3 vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d6 + one-half level lightning damage.

Published in Dark Sun Creature Catalog, page(s) 135. 


Brazier
This brazier burns brightly and hot. Tipping its iron stand sends blazing coals over nearby foes.
Standard Action
Requirement: You must be adjacent to a brazier.
Check: Strength check (DC 20) to overturn the brazier.
Success: The brazier is overturned, making an attack in a close blast 3.
Target: Each creature in blast
Attack: +18 vs. Reflex
Hit: Ongoing 10 fire damage (save ends).


Published in Dungeon Magazine 177, page(s) 25.



So...traps? I mean, they aren't really traps, but they seem to be handled the same way But yes, I use these all the time and they help make combat ALOT more dynamic.

My two copper.



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5 months ago  ::  Dec 31, 2012 - 7:08AM #19
Phobos
Date Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Posts: 1,421

Dec 31, 2012 -- 6:50AM, Jenks wrote:

Dec 31, 2012 -- 6:37AM, Phobos wrote:

Question on minions, why can't you simply take any monster and give it 1 hit point.  Wasn't this (in general) what a minion was?  Does this need to be stat-ed out?




Yes and no. Minions usually had medium defenses and static damage. It wouldn't be hard to change, but most things you would have to jiggle the numbers a bit.

In next I'm not quite so sure. Perhaps someone can try giving them average damage for their attack instead of rolling, and give them 1 HP. Then report if it works or not Chances are some numbers would probably need to be edited a little bit.




Hum, I've been using the monsters "as is" with just 1HP and the static damge in the bestiary, and its worked so far.  I guess I never paid that much attention in 4e to notice how different they were from the actual creature.

Browncoats Unite...
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 31, 2012 - 7:12AM #20
Gwathir
Date Joined: Feb 9, 2012
Posts: 530
- Clean, clear rules

- Focus on making the DM's job easier
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