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I actually found ultramodern4 to be very badly designed options... maybe i have my bar raised way too high...

Jan 6, 2013 -- 1:23PM, mexrage wrote:

I actually found ultramodern4 to be very badly designed options... maybe i have my bar raised way too high...

Im not sure what you mean, while most of the ideas probably wouldnt make a WotC product, but they are quite innovative for the 4e structure.

Oddly, I don't find most of the other problems posted here to be problematic in my games; feats, class imbalance, etc., not an issue for me.

However, if I could change one thing in 4e, it would be to get rid of EVERY power that "lasts until the start/end of your next turn."   Don't give me a power that, if I hit, gives me a +2 on my next attack.   Instead, give me the +2 now for the attack I'm about to make and be done with it.

Way, way, way too much tracking in 4e for my tastes.   I can handle the ongoing fire/poison/etc damage, but I can't stand the '+2 to REF and FORT to all allies within 3 squares until the end of your next turn'.    All of those need to be gone from the game; marking-gone, aegis-gone, divine challenge-gone, quarry-gone, etc.

Here's a rule I'm trying to get my players to buy into:  once I tell you it's your turn, we start a 2-minute timer (I'd prefer 1 minute).   At the end of that timer, your turn is over, even if you have a standard left.  

Jan 12, 2013 -- 3:51PM, WhisperMagellan wrote:

Jan 10, 2013 -- 2:15PM, SwampDog wrote:

Oddly, I don't find most of the other problems posted here to be problematic in my games; feats, class imbalance, etc., not an issue for me.

However, if I could change one thing in 4e, it would be to get rid of EVERY power that "lasts until the start/end of your next turn."   Don't give me a power that, if I hit, gives me a +2 on my next attack.   Instead, give me the +2 now for the attack I'm about to make and be done with it.

Way, way, way too much tracking in 4e for my tastes.   I can handle the ongoing fire/poison/etc damage, but I can't stand the '+2 to REF and FORT to all allies within 3 squares until the end of your next turn'.    All of those need to be gone from the game; marking-gone, aegis-gone, divine challenge-gone, quarry-gone, etc.

Here's a rule I'm trying to get my players to buy into:  once I tell you it's your turn, we start a 2-minute timer (I'd prefer 1 minute).   At the end of that timer, your turn is over, even if you have a standard left.  

So, basically screw the defenders of one of their most useful features. And a lot of Wizard, Warlock, and Cleric powers... Don't bother keeping track of it: only keep track of the effects affecting your creatures/characters at that time. Let the players keep track of what their character has going on. If you are running, assign tagging conditions to one of the players--speeds up most combat rounds very effectively.

I think you might have misunderstood me.   We currently play with all those things in.   I was merely speculating the kind of things I'd like to see gone in a 4.5 version of the game.   Of course the defenders would need something else to offset their loss, I just hate all the tracking 4e has.   It's really the only thing I dislike about this version.

My 4.5 Wish List (Without just moving on to 5E)

1) Combat Speed - Combat simply takes too long.  We've been conditioned by 30 odd years of video games and films to expect more fights more often with more enemies. That's fine, but 4e simply takes too long. Part of that is the breadth of powers at a PC's command, but the easier fix is to work monsters over.  1/2 general monster HP, but don't up the damage (Too much damage only encourages the 5-minute game day).  2-Hit Minions should be a viable option from the word go as well. 

2) Updated Character Sheets - This ones a personal pet peeve.  The current 4e sheets need a massive OFFICIAL overhaul.  We need a dedicated space for Themes. We need an area to list our attack tables by each power.  We need space to tally healing surges more cleanly. And so on.

3) Errata/Patches: Certain things need clean up and/or clarification:

• Feats need to be culled. Useless outdated ones removed. A reorganization in both print and digital forms.
• An Expertise Feat should be given gratis to a level 1 character.  Improved Defenses to all characters at Paragon. You know, the general Math Fixes without paying Feat Taxes, and without needing to change everything at a fundamental level. 
• Racial Powers should be updated to reflect the "highest ability modifier" use. They should also be erattaed to correct their massive scaling issues. They are not powers that should fall to the wayside. 
• Classes such as Bladesinger, Seeker, and Binder should receive large scale re-writes or errata to address their utter failures.  There's salvageable powers and lore behind them, but the core mechanics failed terribly. 
• Beastmaster and other pet-using classes/themes etc need to be rebalanced to keep their pets more relevant and useful in battle. Mainly up their defenses and HP where possible. 
• Alternative costs for Rituals, which at present are over cost for any group that needs them, or useless for groups that can afford them.

4) DDI Content: DRAGON should be reserved exclusively for new PC content. New themes, new powers, certain amount of prose, new races, Magic items (sans lore), and perhaps new Pre-made PCs each month with leveling plans and histories.  DUNGEON is for Maps, Lairs, Puzzles, and all that stuff that PC's simply should not be concerned with (like the recent Tavern creation article, how is that a Dragon issue?) Seriously, this should be straightened out.  There is also no excuse for their being months without actual PC content (IE: New powers, themes, or items)

5) Class Roles:  Some clean up needs to happen here.  A general improvement to each of the 4 roles could be dropped onto many of them without an issue.

• Strikers each need an in-class MBA baked in
• Defenders need an expansion to their punishment mechanics
• I will say this one is mainly because the -2 penalty doesn't RP well, and their defenses really are not that much better than most other non-controllers.
• Controllers need to impose some additional penalties (Universal Save Ends or Save penalties across the board vs Controller powers)
• Leaders need ...something. Not certain what.

6) New Content: This is mainly wishful thinking, but: 

• Finish the Essentials builds: Autumn and Winter Sentinels, more Virtues and Vices, other pacts for Binder and Hexblade, throwing weapon Hunters, Transmute Mages, and so on.
• Arcane Archer subclass of anything but Wizard
• Elemental and Shadow power sources expanded to additional new classes/subclasses.
  (at least cover all the roles, elemental healer, shadow defender and such)
• More powers and feats for under used classes (Swordmage, Artificer, basically all of PHB3)
• Continue monster race to PC race conversions (and some additional new races) and new feats for latter day races like Hengeyokai and such to make them more competitive.
• More Themes (Pet Tamer, sportsman, ambassador, other fun professions)

Some Ideas from elsewhere in the thread I Like:

Fixing Magical items to be static and inherent bonuses added in across the board

Baking in Math Fixes or Nerfing monsters appropriately

Improving out-of-combat side of 4E, up to an including some major changes to skills. Definitely need dual sources for all skill checks. Too many are under/over valued currently.

Real 5E ideas like Power source pools for all powers. Erasure of daily powers (especially from martial).