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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 1:09PM
#91
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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right has nothing to do with good or evil. That is why it is the law. It is supposed to be objective. You still lose your paladin powers.
Rights has nothing do with good or evil? Oh really?
If I detect you as evil, I got the right to kill you. I don't care if that person never did a crime, I'll kill him because evil makes him dangerous. Also I'm too brave to spare his life. *hint: reference*
Paladins are the Cops of D&D.
If I found the evil guy's stash. Of course I am going to take it, because it's my legal right to confiscate the item before he does evil with it. It's like finding a bad guy's AK-47 and take it away before he shoot people with it. It's the same thing. So there my legal rights.
And the cops have no right (Right here is something that is defined as being a lawfully upheld action) to take anyone's AK-47 unless it is specifically breaking the law to have one. Should a cop do so they will find themselves on the other side of the law because that was an unlawful seizure. If we are equating the power a police officer is given by the state as the same as the powers a paladin is given by their god. Then the state can, should, and will suspend / dismiss that officer for his unlawful acts.
Moral of the story: Your paladin still loses his powers.
The cops got the right to take that AK-47 under these situations.
1. The AK-47 is found in a public area. Because that weapon is in a public area, the cops got the right to take it.
Untrue and unlawful. A cop also can't walk up and take your sandwich off your lunch table because it is in public. Even if you go to the bathroom during lunch.
2. The weapon is inside a criminal home. If you are a wanted criminal, of course we are going to raid your house and take your weapons, drugs, stolen items. That how it works in the real world.
True in some cases, untrue in others. You also state, quite clearly, in your post that the person who is the "bad guy" who warrants killing doesn't need to have ever done anything criminal. Assuming it is a lawful search and seizure thats a different ball of wax and not at all what I'm talking about. I'm not saying there can't be an instance where they can take your stuff, I'm saying there are a lot of instances where your analogy falls on its face.
3. If you go into an area that saids no weapons, they got the rights to take it from you.
Yes, if you are actively breaking the law the cops can punish you for actively breaking the law. This isn't at all the same situation. Like you said, the people who you can justify taking stuff from still aren't
Moral of the story: Paladin loses his powers, because he is breakin' the law of his god (if you were keeping up God=state in this series of discussions).
Now, unfortunately you have proven that you are going to stick to your guns and "rules lawyer" (Read here: choosing to read anything however you want regardless of facts) your point of view into whatever you wish it to be. So... I think welcome to being #2 on my ignore list?
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 1:10PM
#92
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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Fire spells, please. I can use the heat to pop my popcorn.
I can't have popcorn on my new diet.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 1:17PM
#93
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Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2009
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Fire spells, please. I can use the heat to pop my popcorn.
Just don't do it over the corpse. I did that before.
The taste is... not pleasant.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 1:36PM
#94
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2010
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Judge: If he just compare an AK-47 to a sandwich? The paladin keeps his powers, case closed.
Me: Thank you. Thank you. I couldn't let this man have his powers taken away for doing what he believes in. There many paladins who lost their powes, because of poor DM's judgement.
It's my job to show them that the paladin's actions are good and justified.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 6:00PM
#95
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Date Joined:
Nov 23, 2003
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Avoid court if you think that's how that's gonna go down. That's all I've got to say on that subject...
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 6:07PM
#96
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Paladins are not cops sorry. Laws are made by rulers. Unless said rulers give the paladins legal authority, violations of the law are still...illegal, even if the laws are unjust.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 6:39PM
#97
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2010
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Paladins are not cops sorry. Laws are made by rulers. Unless said rulers give the paladins legal authority, violations of the law are still...illegal, even if the laws are unjust.
*opens up his 3.5e playerbook*
It's say here that the paladin's code requires him to respect legitimate authority.
That means the ruler must have right to rule and make those laws.
If the ruler action is unjust or he is evil, the paladin don't have to respect his authority.
The ruler could place a sign or a law that say No paladins in the city. Unless there a legit reason for doing that, the paladin don't have to respect it.
The paladin is lawful good, he ain't lawful stupid.
In short, he doesn't need to respect laws that are harmful to the innocents.
That means Protecting And Serving The Innocents > Laws.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 6:45PM
#98
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Negative ghostrider. Rulers do not need to be just. Might may not make right, but it certainly does often make legal. Because rulers do not need to be just, their laws do not need to be just.
if you violate the law, you are no longer Lawful Good, and you can kiss those sweet pally powers good bye. Thanks for playing though.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 8:05PM
#99
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2010
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if you violate the law, you are no longer Lawful Good, and you can kiss those sweet pally powers good bye. Thanks for playing though.
By that logic.....
I'm walking in the city after curfew. I'm now Chaotic Good, because I broke the curfew law.
Yay, I feel like a rebel now.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 8:08PM
#100
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As comical as Crow has been, he is amply demonstrating why the 3e paladin was a pile of crap ... because on such a subjective matter, everybody thinks they're right and can't be convinced otherwise (even though I don't believe Crow even believes the drivel he's spouting).
I threw the 3e paladin out of the game completely, and that was the best decision I could possibly have made.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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