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6 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 11:47PM
#321
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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I want alignments back into the mechanics.
Detect Evil, Smite Evil, Holy Word, you name it.
I want alignments back into the mechanics.
Detect Evil, Smite Evil, Holy Word, you name it.
Fine by me, as long as no one tries to make me roleplay a particular way simply because it suits them.
Those two things. Basically that is why I want alignment not in the mechanics. Not because I don't want to be good, but rather I don't want to be put in a grey situation whose "right answer" is DM defined and not rules defined.
Keep it separate, like in 4e.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 7:08AM
#322
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I'm not sure that's true, but no matter. You are speaking to a target audience: i.e. the people who read these boards, many (if not most) of whom will be 4e players.
Keep moving the goal posts. You'll hit upon something useful at some point.
Prove the majority of the people READING this board are 4E players.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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6 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 7:11AM
#323
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I want alignments back into the mechanics.
Detect Evil, Smite Evil, Holy Word, you name it.
Fine by me, as long as no one tries to make me roleplay a particular way simply because it suits them.
That should be true of anything in the game. "Don't tread on me" is self-evident enough to be left unsaid.
Simultaneously, DMs need to be smart enough to incorporate these things into their games without pitching fits when players use the tools as their disposal and unwind their "precious little plots"...which seems to be a HUGE concern some DMs have with alignment...and it is 100% their failing and poor attitudes.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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6 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 7:12AM
#324
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Those two things. Basically that is why I want alignment not in the mechanics. Not because I don't want to be good, but rather I don't want to be put in a grey situation whose "right answer" is DM defined and not rules defined.
Keep it separate, like in 4e.
...How in the world does any of that provide a "right" answer?
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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6 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 7:13AM
#325
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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Excuse me, who is moving goalpoasts?
I said many (if not most) of the people reading this will play 4e (which is not an unreasonable assumption given that this is a subset of the WotC 4e forums), so I don't see why I have to prove that a majority are 4e.
Many != majority.
And congratulations, straw man argument successfully raised.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 7:18AM
#326
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Excuse me, who is moving goalpoasts?
I said many (if not most) of the people reading this will play 4e (which is not an unreasonable assumption given that this is a subset of the WotC 4e forums), so I don't see why I have to prove that a majority are 4e.
Many != majority.
And congratulations, straw man argument successfully raised.
It is still an assumption. So if MORE people play other editions of Dungeons & Dragons AND 4th Edition is soon-to-be-defunct, how is it the most valid point of discussion? The answer is: It isn't necessarily but it is the most valid to you so you are selfishly insisting that it be the end-all-be-all of the discussions present.
Too bad, so sad. Things don't work that way.
EDIT: I'll also add that in your own post you wrote "many (if not most)" and most implies majority. So, yes, in your own post you were attempting to imply a majority.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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6 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 7:44AM
#327
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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No, I am saying that it should be taken into consideration, which you seem to be unable to do.
And no it didn't just imply a majority, it gave the opportunity for me to be right whether it was a majority or not. What it did imply was a either a large minority or a small majority.
Also, don't tell me what I was trying to imply. What I was /trying/ to do you have no way of knowing. You can only see the result.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 7:57AM
#328
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No, I am saying that it should be taken into consideration, which you seem to be unable to do.
And no it didn't just imply a majority, it gave the opportunity for me to be right whether it was a majority or not. What it did imply was a either a large minority or a small majority.
Also, don't tell me what I was trying to imply. What I was /trying/ to do you have no way of knowing. You can only see the result.
Right whether it's true or not? So basically you reserve the right to heavily imply or outright say stuff but not really commit to it in case its shown to be false or useless as a statement? Seems fair. Also seems about as genuine as a lot of what gets said.
The result is that you have been caught shfiting goal posts...and disproven. Again.
This is not a 4E only forum. 4E is facing becoming obsolete. More people, combined, play other versions of D&D (or D&D based products) than play ONLY 4th Edition. Therefore all those things mean that speaking of D&D GENERALLY means that it is entirely fair to make assumptions based on the MAJORITY of D&D products. That 4E does not have some of those qualities merely means that that particular bit MIGHT not be germaine to 4th Ed. It is not an edition war nor it is anything else like that except that YOU desperately want it to be so that you can try to turn it into a victimization thing.
TL:DR version - Get down off that cross because no one is gonna pound nails in for you.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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6 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 8:01AM
#329
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Im asking alignment defenders to define it because it's so obviously easy, there should be no trouble defining Evil as Detect Evil would detect it.
Given you're an alignment defender, I fully expect you will make zero attempts at defining evil and will simply insult me and make excuses.
Huh? strange that someone who is against allignment systems woudl stereotype my behavior in exactly the same way that he is against. I am for allignment and therefore will only hurl insults and excuses rather then make a plausible arguement? Might I say how very CN of you?
Empathy and an inherent sense of right and wrong are natural states of the human makeup, if someone lacks the ability to discern between right and wrong, basic ethics or to empathise with others, then they are afflicted with a level of sociopathic personality disorder. It's why Lie detectors work, because we inherently know it's wrong to lie. That disorder is actually very common in most people to some minor degree but is only refered to when it it's a significant magnitude.
But if you wish for a definition of Evil in game terms, you only need to flip over to the PHB and read the entry, it is laid out pretty clear, and if someone don't understand that definition and can't distinguish betwene Good (value life) and Evil (harms life) then their sociopathic personality disorder probably needs treatment. That isn't an insult, I am being serious, they should Seek Help!
A monster, such as a troll, goblin etc, that wantonly kills sentient creatures to feast on their flesh, derives pleasure from acts of cruelty and destruction, murders, rapes, destroys is Evil.
An amoral person who will do do anythign to achieve his goal, including murder, inslavement, blackmail, torture, etc etc, has no respect for the value of life or freedom of others (ie murders his parrents for the inheritence, kidnaps children and forces them to work to death in his mines) is evil
If we are playign 3.5 edition (I asume this reference from the Paladin topic) then Evil is defined as follows:
Good: protects innocent life.
Evil: debase or destroy innocent life, whether for fun or profit
Good: implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others
Evil: implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master.
People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent (Evil) but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others (Good).
If someone reads the allignment page and somehow doesn't understand the difference between Good and Evil (assuming they can read at that point) then they have some serious sociopathic personality disorder going on.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 10, 2013 - 8:08AM
#330
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Indeed
Well put stuff, Mr Customer.
I would not expect a response though since EnglishLanguage has probably stealth-excused himself from the thread since he was given the links from Wizards themselves that explicitly disprove what he was saying. That is pretty much his M.O. (IE: make ridiculous claims that are easily disprovable...have them disproven...run away...lurk for a while...repost ridiculous claims...repeat)
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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