I like the classic Realms (1987-2008). While 4th ed may not be my preferred D&D I can take it or leave it depending on what aspect of it is being mentioned. Parts of 4th ed were fantastic, other parts were not to my taste. At least it seemed to be good at what it was trying to achieve (balance, tactics etc). Being the forever DM I would play 4th ed or any other edition of D&D if a DM offered to run a game. My tolerence however does not extend to 4th ed FR.
FR is also take it or leave it IMHO. Even with classic FR I thought a few things were just sill (Time of Troubles, Elminster) but overall I like the setting. I like following the events in the world as the timeline advances even if I do not like everything that is happening. I do not like massive disruptin to the Realms such as the planar shift that happened with the 2nd ed to 3rd ed transition let alone the 4th ed realms. In 3 editions of D&D the Realms has had 3 different cosmologies. Beats me why they couldn't have just used the Great Wheel from 2nd ed to 3rd ed like they did for the core rules.
Anyway what I would do is either a reboot back to the original FR or back to 3.5 Realms and pick up the timeline in 1375DR where it left off.
Yes I realise this will likely annoy 4th ed fans of the Relams who may not have liked the classic Realms. THe Realms existed over 20 years with an apparently successful D&D product line with tie in novels and popular video games with mass crossover appeal (Baldurs Gate, Eye of the beholder I,II,II, Pool of Radience etc). FR was popular and like it or not it was the most sucessful camapign setting for 20 odd years in D&D. The 4th ed FR came along with the spellplague and nuked entire sections of the Realms. While I wasn't a fan of fake Aztec/Egypt area of the Realms if they were removed in some whty I would have reffered it to make sense and tie in to existing FR lore. Maybe the Sarrukh for example kill off the Mulhorandi people/pantheon for example. THere are also numerous ways they cold have added the Dragonborn to the setting. Dragons of Faerun for example had dragon eggs rain from the sky and Dragonmen existed in FR pre 4th ed anyway.
Around about now someone is probably gonna start screaming about having their needs excluded and I am being selfish. Thats OK but I kind of have to be blunt here so I will be. Tough luck. I do not like Dragonlance, Ravenloft, World of Darkness, and various other settings, genres etc. Rather than complain about Ravenloft for example I made the conscious decision to just not play it. I do not expect Ravenloft to change to suit my needs, if you like Ravenloft all power to you knock yourself out and go and play Ravenloft.
If you are a fan of 4th ed FR odds are we are going to disagree entirely. One of us is probably going to be disapponted. Even a multi era type FR like Star Wars will not work becasue in a few years the spell plague will happen (ty Grand History of the Realms). One more or less has to retcon that books existence away along with the spellplague to fix the Realms. I supppose they could make the Spellplague the default Realms but I doubt it. If they did pick up the Realms in 1375 and you like the Spellplague you can do it in your home games. If they keep it and just reset the clock to 1375 it will always be there as part of the future in official published material and its not really that far away (6th ed FR set during the SP bleah no thanks).
I do not want a multiera frozen in time FR as the timeline advancing has always sort of being the thing to the Realms. Not everyone likes the metaplot or everything about the metaplot but to me it seems to define the Realms. If one doesn't like the classic Realms I suggest you can always do what I do in regards to Dragonlance and Ravenloft. You don't like it thats fine I understand but why destroy it for those that do? There are plenty of other settings one can use or one can create there own. If you want to kill off all of the FR NPCs, drop mountains on continents and have Drizzt doing tricks on the streets of Calimport by all means go ahead in your home games.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
Anyway what I would do is either a reboot back to the original FR or back to 3.5 Realms and pick up the timeline in 1375DR where it left off.
It was confirmed months ago that this is NOT what they are doing, and they have no interest in doing so. The Spellplague isn't being retconned, and the 5E era of the Realms is expected to start around 1500 DR or so (perhaps a few years before), as the Sundering is expected to occur anywhere between 1485-1500 DR. That being said, it was also said that certain elements of the Spellplague, such as Returned Abeir/Laerakond, won't be sticking around.
I do not want a multiera frozen in time FR as the timeline advancing has always sort of being the thing to the Realms. Not everyone likes the metaplot or everything about the metaplot but to me it seems to define the Realms.
Well, they have said they are interested in making the 5E Realms open to the idea of different eras in which players can set their games, so we'll have to wait and see how that turns out.
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it."
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived.
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up!
We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and....
One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison...
MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development.
TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment.
You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :|
I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
ANy FR that conatins any elements of the Spellplagued will not be purchased by myself anyway. A 1500 DR reboot would have to be spectacular to even remotely interest me. Its still a 100+ year timeline jump which kills off all the old characters with a few exceptions like Drizzt/Elminster.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
That's an odd definition of "classic". Before the Spellplague, people were arguing about all the other Realms-Shattering-Events that had plagued the Realms on a near-constant basis. In fact, it makes it seem like this thread is a very very thinly veiled attack on 4e Realms. For shame.
Sorry to burst your hopes Zardnar but they (being designers, authors, etc) have already said the Spellplague event will be apart of FR history going into D&D:N though the Sundering might help put some things back in the Realms, namely a few gods and FR-Mexico and FR-Egypt. They also mention something about novels being written in any time frame.
Safe to say, I doubt ill buy much FR 5e stuff cuz' I actually like most of the 4E changes they made. It held enough FR feel while being fresh and, well more interesting than the heap of messes it was dealing with (mary-sue "Chosen", All-powerful Mystra, 301+ deities that all did stuff very similar to one another, redundancy with naming every single NPC in existance, and a somewhat unnerving feeling one might get when they stray from Canon). All I really want is for them to put out a detailed book about Returned Abeir so that I can retain that information rather than the mexico/egypt BS they're than likely to bring back.
I'd rather design the setting to be something like Ed Greenwood's Realms book from a couple months ago. Make it vague and ambiguous enough, but supply enough good content to utilize in your campaigns. As for Spellplague and Abeir (and any other retcons brought by 4th ed), I'd personally make greater details available in a seperate sourcebook. The same goes for Time of Troubles and Return of the Shades. Plus, a Beyond Faerun book to cover Maztica, Kara-Tur, Al Qadim, etc... That way it's more so pick and choose and the basis won't be offensive to the fans as a whole. A bit too clean and PC, but hey... As long as there's supplements available ASAP, everyone's happy. Personally, I'd love smiting spellplague realms into oblivion. I'm 100% bitter over its reason for creation, giving into people who continuously complained that the setting wasn't for them/wasn't Eberron/in general, "complaining about games you don't play." Oh well... what's done is done. The Realms is dead to me as a continuing property, but I might get 5E realms to convert the previous lore and homebrew/headcanon from many years of play over.
I'm hoping this is the case. No invalidation, no retcons, and it promotes the module/options philosophy that 5E promotes. If that fails, I suppose a one-shot dedicated to brutally destroying Abeir and/or nuking the current Realms into nothingness can be arranged...
Disgruntled ghost of the Knights of W.T.F. (Keep D&D alive, end the edition wars!)
"And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Disclaimer: Most of my posts are based on opinions (and are sometimes humorous, other times inspirational)
That's an odd definition of "classic". Before the Spellplague, people were arguing about all the other Realms-Shattering-Events that had plagued the Realms on a near-constant basis. In fact, it makes it seem like this thread is a very very thinly veiled attack on 4e Realms. For shame.
I do agree that before the Spellplague people complained about The Time of Troubles, and the complaints aren't anything new. I too "was there", and heard the complaints first hand
At the same time, I would love to see a return to the Pre-Spellplague era. Those other events didn't change the geography of Toril nearly as much, causing them to invalidate less of people's home campaigns. Besides, anyone who's studied mega-tsunamis knows that replacing one continent with another is an extinction level event regardless of the number of gods or hand waving that says otherwise. Abeir changed the Realms from a fantasy locale to a grotesque parody of any form of available logic. I'd like to see a little less Benny Hill in my favorite campaign setting.
That's an odd definition of "classic". Before the Spellplague, people were arguing about all the other Realms-Shattering-Events that had plagued the Realms on a near-constant basis. In fact, it makes it seem like this thread is a very very thinly veiled attack on 4e Realms. For shame.
I played through the upset caused by the Time of Troubles.
I remember how annoyed many were over the Return of the Shades.
The response to the Spellplague actually seemed muted in comparison, given that it eliminated many longstanding problems (especially the racist depictions of non-european cultures) which were looked on poorly here in multicultural New Zealand.
The best thing I've heard about the Realms is that they will be picking up from 4th but also supporting earlier points in the timeline, which seems to me to be the only way to be inclusive.
The OP really doesn't seem to be intrested in embracing the inclusive spirit of Next, which is unfortunate.
I'd rather design the setting to be something like Ed Greenwood's Realms book from a couple months ago. Make it vague and ambiguous enough, but supply enough good content to utilize in your campaigns. As for Spellplague and Abeir (and any other retcons brought by 4th ed), I'd personally make greater details available in a seperate sourcebook. The same goes for Time of Troubles and Return of the Shades. Plus, a Beyond Faerun book to cover Maztica, Kara-Tur, Al Qadim, etc... That way it's more so pick and choose and the basis won't be offensive to the fans as a whole. A bit too clean and PC, but hey... As long as there's supplements available ASAP, everyone's happy.
This I can get behind. I'm fairly certain that the Sundering will be removing many elements of the Forgotten Realms I've come to enjoy and love over the past 4 1/2 years and will continue to do so regardless of what's "official". I think my biggest problem is that they had the possibility to be something MORE than just a spot.....over there......away from Faerûn.....that had some.....stuff.......different than some other stuff. Which is what Returned Abeir ended up being. It was 4E's Maztica all over again but without a crappy trilogy of books. If they're going to bother detailing a continent with races, plots, cities, and maps then DO something with it! Alas, it'll return to Mexico and be forgotten again because no one cares* about Mexico-esque Realms junk.
Personally, I'd love smiting spellplague realms into oblivion. I'm 100% bitter over its reason for creation, giving into people who continuously complained that the setting wasn't for them/wasn't Eberron/in general, "complaining about games you don't play."
I've seen this a lot from people who don't like what an edition change will mean for the Realms but I never believe it. Those "complaints" were often well articulated and posted a LOT of Realmslore along with them. To me, that says a LOT, espically from those vocal people who apparently weren't that invested in the Realms to begin with. Now, one might gander over to RPG.net and get the "geneal" opinion of the Realms, but then that would be stepping out of one's comfort zone and listening to well.....harsh (and often valid) criticism. But most people don't, they flee to the strong holds of the Old Guard (like Candlekeep or Dragonsfoot) where their opinions are validated and reaffirmed 10x over. Suffice to say that even though I played in AD&D Realms and 3E Realms there were MANY things I felt were not very "Realms-ian" or didn't fit the setting well or just downright were bad plot or NPCs or Gods. This doesn't mean, however, that I'm not a fan or that the Realms aren't for me. Quite the opposite really. I actually enjoy far MORE of the Realms than I hate and what I hate, I remove with abandon and replace with splendor. Simple as that.
In the case of 4E though, the designers shoved MORE into what I already liked and left the crud that I despised out. It was, literally, a Win-Win for me. Which is why I say that I'd probably not subscribe to the 5E Realms, frankly because they're pandering to yet other complaining voices that don't share the same vision of the Realms as I do and haven't for the past 5+ years.
*I say "No one cares" because if a great many customers did, there would be a BIGGER outcry for books in that area. To my knowledge, there wasn't and thus, Maztica (and to a lesser extent, Mulhorandi) were left in the dust because they generally garnered little passion from the fans.
thats simple, one should look at the big picture on what made the realms the realms and it was all of it, from the many deities, the various cultures, the land masses, the plot hooks, the npcs( yes the high level ones too).
4e realms took alot out aand shoehorned alot in
they should make Realms be the Realms again and not something it isnt.
you dont like it leave it but dont go messing it up for those who do..... see the long list of gripes complaints of the 4e changes and all it did.....
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
