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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 8:26AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2009
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I am always hard pressed to blame characters for being "subpar". If the DM sees this happening in game, he or she should simply adjust the creatures that the party is fighting. I do not see any one character that is optimized and stealing the show. The DM has the power to simply react and adjust encounters to fit the players. In the DM's eyes, perhaps the characters are their true level minus 1 or 2. Now the players are effective, everyone is having fun and there is less worry about trying to get everyone maxed and OP.
Another thought is that if they are building less than optimized characters, they may be picking poor powers and playing less "ideally". The DM compensation would also solve this as well.
While I agree with you, I've met a lot of DMs who lack either the skill, the extra time, or the motivation to tailor encounters to the party. A good number of people simply run modules as-is and can't or won't put in the effort to make changes while needed.
Secondly, most new players I've met really don't mind suggestions on how to function better. I had a bard in chainmail who would have had a better AC in hide, and when I pointed it out he was grateful. A couple other players are overwhelmed by feat choices and have sighed with relief when I gave them a couple options that would be good for them.
In the end, the game is about being heroic, and if you can make a PC better at its job without damaging the character concept (and admittedly this is where it breaks down for some players), then the party can feel more heroic and just overall badass.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 11:32AM
#32
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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As DM, there isn't much you can do about disparity. Just today, I had the following happen. Striker goes, hits something with an encounter power, does 12 damage. Controller goes, hits three things with an encounter power, does 31 damage to each, creates a zone in burst 2 that does blah blah. It's anecdotal, but the point is, people need to figure out how to build characters. What's a DM to do, tell the poorly built striker, yo, from now on you deal +25 damage? Not really an elegant solution. Start nerfing the controller's perfectly legitimate character? That's even worse. Best remaining approach is helping the striker build a more effective character.
That's true to an extent. But ideally, characters are balanced against each other in terms of effectiveness. That Striker clearly needs a big damage boost, but it may also mean the Controller needs to be asked to tone it down a notch.
Many players, if the DM asks nicely, will tone down their characters for the sake of the group. It is much better route than having half the table revolt because they never get to do anything and they're playing reasonably optimized characters...
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 4:08PM
#33
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As DM, there isn't much you can do about disparity. Just today, I had the following happen. Striker goes, hits something with an encounter power, does 12 damage. Controller goes, hits three things with an encounter power, does 31 damage to each, creates a zone in burst 2 that does blah blah. It's anecdotal, but the point is, people need to figure out how to build characters. What's a DM to do, tell the poorly built striker, yo, from now on you deal +25 damage? Not really an elegant solution. Start nerfing the controller's perfectly legitimate character? That's even worse. Best remaining approach is helping the striker build a more effective character.
I think Zathris' point is whether the burden of doing so is on the DM or the player. He thinks (and to a certain extent I think as well) that the burden should be on the player. In my opinion players who are just entering the game with an experienced DM should be able to rely on their DM to help them build something strong. If they have been playing for 6 months, well then the burden to improve is on them.
Exactly. I should have prefaced my statement by saying that Tutorial Mode is a thing, but at some point you should actually play the game.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 6:56PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2012
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Another problem with the DM adjusting encounter difficulty for weaker parties is the slowed progression from the weaker encounters.
While the DM can and probably should adjust the strength of enounters to what the party can handle, that isn't a real solution in my opinion.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 7:04PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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Another problem with the DM adjusting encounter difficulty for weaker parties is the slowed progression from the weaker encounters.
While the DM can and probably should adjust the strength of enounters to what the party can handle, that isn't a real solution in my opinion.
Or the DM could adjust the strength for the group and ignore EXP (which is what me and all my local DMs have been doing for a couple years now).
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 7:08PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2009
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I have only been popping in from time to time to see what wonderful insight folks have and i guess it really boils down to how and where the game is played. If you are playing in a home group setting then i would assume that most of the DM's encounters are designed to meet the middle ground of his players where all levels of play get their chance to shine.
If these games are played from LFR-mods with mostly random tables with the DM running straight from those mods then...well... the under-opped players will either get their **** kicked, hopefully not drag the rest of the group down in flames with them, pick themselves up off the floor and ask for help from the more experienced players or just learn to build better PC's themselves.
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