|
5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 11:57AM
#31
|
Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
|
Backgrounds are made to be optional, we can't have prime aspect of classe in them.
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 1:57PM
#32
|
Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
|
Rogues with sneak attacks fight with weapons in military ways, with training to hit the right spots even in the heat of combat.
Assassinate is okay, as you basically have to be "out of combat" to use it.
But sneak attack is something fighters should have in ther arsenal if they specialize in dirty fighting.
As they are, rogues are just light fighters with the idea that being more skill focused and in light armors creates a full archetype. Rogues in melee or at range are not really different than fighters with the same weapons and light armors. Archetypal monks dance naked, hit with their feet, and run everywhere like cockroaches, nothing like fighters.
I know some swashbucklers, and French Sailors that would argure with you on that. Savate is a French Sailor's martial art, which was a form of kick boxing and only with the feet.
Sorry, but savate appeared from french fencing tradition, and it also use the fists.
Actually no. It was originally a way of fighting on decks of ships among bored sailors. They would lash out with their feet while holding on to the rigging. This was during... The 18th century? Before Boxing became a formalized sport. It then became a street 'sport' because sword dueling got so lethal, that the French government banned carrying swords openly. So cane techniques were added and Savate was adopted.
Actual Boxing techniques being added were a recently new thing, like 19th century. It's also quite different to watch as compared to say MMA, or even Kickboxing matches. Where in MMA/Kickboxing is mostly punches with a few kicks, in Savate they throw almost as many kicks as they do punches. Quite something to watch.
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 6:00PM
#33
|
Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
|
If we talk about "martial arts" (in France), weaponmasters from 16th century were proficient in around 30 weapons and unarmed melee techniques using head, fist, elbows, and legs only for knocking prone and bull rushes.
Apart from this, it was common for peasants to fight unarmed or with staves.
During 17th century, there were not one unarmed combat style in France, there were three. In the lower parts of cities, bad boys used fists, arms, feet and knives. South french sailors are reported to only have used feets, but sailors from the north also used open hands. And the three used catch, projections, and other melee funny things. In the south, it has a name : the chausson.
But the name savate is not documented before the end of 18th century, with Vidocq having learnt savatte (old spelling) in prison, in 1797. It used fist, feet and all the nice unarmed melee things.
After that, Savate has been codified in 1820-25 by a fencing master. This savate only used feet, and the true influences remain unknown, as it used techniques coming from criminals as well as peasants.
And soon after, in 1832, techniques with fists come back to savate, inspired from english boxing.
After that, savate starts to lose its reputation of sports for criminals and evolve, in form and in name, until today.
Just to say that everybody fight with fist and feet everywhere since prehistorical times, but documents give the savatte name to a crude combat style used by criminals first.
So maybe we should consider that rogues and monks should be merged in a common archetype, lol.
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 6:21PM
#34
|
Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
|
So maybe we should consider that rogues and monks should be merged in a common archetype, lol.
Gladiators and Pugilists of Greece and Rome very mingled in there historically, oh my oops? does that look like the archetypes of Fighter/Rogue/Monk had so much overlap its not funny.
The knights fighting styles by the way included pommel and fist strikes and martial take downs and said to be quite complex, modern fencing/martial artists studying them say the fencing schools basically dissed them saying they were brute force only etc.. as a form of social attack trying to establish there own prominance.
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 6:57PM
#35
|
Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
|
So maybe we should consider that rogues and monks should be merged in a common archetype, lol.
Gladiators and Pugilists of Greece and Rome very mingled in there historically, oh my oops? does that look like the archetypes of Fighter/Rogue/Monk had so much overlap its not funny.
The knights fighting styles by the way included pommel and fist strikes and martial take downs and said to be quite complex, modern fencing/martial artists studying them say the fencing schools basically dissed them saying they were brute force only etc.. as a form of social attack trying to establish there own prominance.
It makes sense as description of full armored knight training tell about them as favoring quickness, evasion and dodge, never parrying with the weapon if it could be avoided.
The problem is that knighthood and the use of big armors started to die with the use of the english longbows on the battlefields. And D&D is full of longbows, fantasy crossbows almost reloading by themselves, and many piercing weapons (natural ones included).
In D&D, the average warrior should be swordmage or light warriors like samourais or rangers, and not full armored knights.
So when someone tells us that Bikini chainmail makes no sense, just say : longbow and big claws.
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
|
|
|
