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6 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 5:35PM
#31
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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Prepackaged specialties don't offer me anything if I am just going to read through all of the feats and decide which ones I want anyway. I need a reason why a prepackaged specialty can give me some added enjoyment. It doesn't need to be a min-max advantage but it does need to offer something over the more customizable model.
I will never use specialties as such if I can pick and choose my individual feats. I may like one specialty but not want the order that the specialty states and I would likely substitute at least one instead.
Better not to waste the space by offering specialties. It is adding another layer of complexity with very little added value. While novices might like it initially, most people I know would want to know what choices they missed.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 6:22PM
#32
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2006
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i think the whole purpose to specialites is to put forward the idea that your feats shouldn't just be a hodgepodge of mechanical boons, but a tree of similarly themed options that collectively say something about what your character does in the world.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 6:27PM
#33
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i think the whole purpose to specialites is to put forward the idea that your feats shouldn't just be a hodgepodge of mechanical boons, but a tree of similarly themed options that collectively say something about what your character does in the world.
The problem with that is the player becomes beholden to the developer's concept of similarly themed options. If your playstyle isn't supported, you're SOL. I know my concept of TWF doesn't include TWD, as an example.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 6:31PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2006
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i think the whole purpose to specialites is to put forward the idea that your feats shouldn't just be a hodgepodge of mechanical boons, but a tree of similarly themed options that collectively say something about what your character does in the world.
The problem with that is the player becomes beholden to the developer's concept of similarly themed options. If your playstyle isn't supported, you're SOL. I know my concept of TWF doesn't include TWD, as an example.
did you not notice the section that says you can come up with your own speciality? Or even the part that says you can deviate from the specialty you've chosen?
the goal isn't to have pre-made specialties cover every character concept, the goal is to get people to think of feats as a collection of similarly themed options that say something about what your character does in the world.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 6:32PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2012
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i think the whole purpose to specialites is to put forward the idea that your feats shouldn't just be a hodgepodge of mechanical boons, but a tree of similarly themed options that collectively say something about what your character does in the world.
The problem with that is the player becomes beholden to the developer's concept of similarly themed options. If your playstyle isn't supported, you're SOL. I know my concept of TWF doesn't include TWD, as an example.
That's the problem I have with it. It kind of railroads you into becoming something else which is what the background system does as well. I'd rather see a list of feats and wade through them rather than pick a tree to follow. Its the same with a set of skills and traits. Its part of building a character and I'm getting the feeling that they are kind of making that disappear. If I want to follow some tree of pre-set stuff then I'd be playing a video game instead...
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6 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 6:36PM
#36
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i think the whole purpose to specialites is to put forward the idea that your feats shouldn't just be a hodgepodge of mechanical boons, but a tree of similarly themed options that collectively say something about what your character does in the world.
The problem with that is the player becomes beholden to the developer's concept of similarly themed options. If your playstyle isn't supported, you're SOL. I know my concept of TWF doesn't include TWD, as an example.
did you not notice the section that says you can come up with your own speciality? Or even the part that says you can deviate from the specialty you've chosen?
the goal isn't to have pre-made specialties cover every character concept, the goal is to get people to think of feats as a collection of similarly themed options that say something about what your character does in the world.
Making your own Specialty or deviating from a Specialty is functionally identical to not using Specialties at all. The only sane reason to include them is to adhere to them. They serve no other purpose. I highly doubt their purpose is to guide the way the player base thinks. I certainly hope WotC isn't that Orwellian.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 9:13PM
#37
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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i think the whole purpose to specialites is to put forward the idea that your feats shouldn't just be a hodgepodge of mechanical boons, but a tree of similarly themed options that collectively say something about what your character does in the world.
This.
A tomato spaghetti is really just a assembly of sauce, meat balls and pasta while having a known history and origin. You can replace meat balls with sausage if you prefer while still having a tomato spaghetti. Or you can have sauce, meat balls and pasta with a different flavor and be alfredo fettucini instead. Finally you can just have a meaty sauce and a side of pasta that altogheter is not any known traditional meal.
Just like Specialties...
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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6 months ago ::
Dec 28, 2012 - 8:27AM
#38
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Prepackaged specialties don't offer me anything if I am just going to read through all of the feats and decide which ones I want anyway.
Ahh, but maybe it's not about you... You want the complexity and customization of building your own Specialty, which the rules allow for. The new guy, the drop-in, the one-off session; they might want fast, convenient, straight-forward character creation. Luckily, the system caters to both camps, so it's win-win.
That's the problem I have with it. It kind of railroads you into becoming something else which is what the background system does as well. I'd rather see a list of feats and wade through them rather than pick a tree to follow. Its the same with a set of skills and traits. Its part of building a character and I'm getting the feeling that they are kind of making that disappear. If I want to follow some tree of pre-set stuff then I'd be playing a video game instead...
Again, because you can choose your own tree, it's a moot point. Specialties are pre-packaged "kits" you can use if you don't want to choose your own tree. It's a win-win.
Making your own Specialty or deviating from a Specialty is functionally identical to not using Specialties at all. The only sane reason to include them is to adhere to them. They serve no other purpose. I highly doubt their purpose is to guide the way the player base thinks. I certainly hope WotC isn't that Orwellian.
See, I disagree. They serve as pre-packaged templates you can use IF YOU WANT TO. They are collections of feats that the designers have put together, with the caveat that you can build your own instead. It's like going to a pizza joint - you can order the Meat Lovers Pizza with x, y and z on it, or you can just pick your own toppings. There's no influence here, it's merely a convenience that the designers are making the effort to include in order to serve the wider customer base.
tl;dr: If you don't want to use them, don't - they aren't meant for you anyways.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 28, 2012 - 9:01AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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Aren't you belittling your friend by artificially deciding for her what her own due time is?
No, I'm respecting her by letting her decide for herself when it is rather than trying to force it on her before I have any idea whether she's ready. Painting that as belittling is absurd.
Prepackaged specialties don't offer me anything if I am just going to read through all of the feats and decide which ones I want anyway.
Prepackaged specialties aren't supposed to offer you anything you are just going to read through all of the feats and decide which ones you want anyway. That is not their purpose. You are not supposed to have any incentive to take them other than if you're just starting out and want simplicity. It seems like your real problem is that you're having trouble grasping what specialties really are. It's clear that specialties just aren't for you, and that's okay. If you don't need them, then play without them.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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6 months ago ::
Dec 28, 2012 - 9:16AM
#40
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I'm fine if specialties aren't mathematically optimal, and that they don't get used by people looking to min-max. That's who the op is talking about when he says "some specialties will be avoided".
As for chaks argument, add me to one of the people who disagree. Bundling feats to take up less design space makes sense. For one shotS, I definitely think I'd use specialties - it's easier to figure that my character is a woodsman than figure out 4 different feats. For longer term campaigns, I could see chafing at a specialty. Of course, I'm the reason we're dumbing down d&d. We're selling the fanbase short because mecorva can't hack it. FYI.
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