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5 months ago ::
Dec 26, 2012 - 2:51PM
#1
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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I need some sudgestions on what type builds are "gamebreaking" or "overpowered" that do not use dragon-mag or hybrid. It should be somehting that can be done in heroic or low paragon.
The current DM is very strict about not allowing hybrid or anything from dragon-mag because the thinks they are overpowered. I think if I can show him an example to the contrary he might change his mind, but I have never tried to make a gamebreaking character, and am unsure where to start. However, it should probably be damage or control. Buffing and tankiness are generally overlooked by him.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 26, 2012 - 4:33PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2009
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Do you play with errata, or straight from the books? If no errata, try a good ole' sleep-locking wizard - comes online fairly early and should be able to show him how PHB1 chars can break encounters better than the "overpowered Dragon Mag stuff".
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5 months ago ::
Dec 26, 2012 - 4:57PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2010
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Warlord + Ranger + pre-errata Blade Cascade.
Wizards of the Coast can suck it.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 26, 2012 - 8:03PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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Warlord + Ranger + pre-errata Blade Cascade.
Anything with Pre-errata Blade Cascade.
Also wasn't there a thing with using Twinstrike as an MBA when you OA and replacing the offhand strike with an MBA (Twinstrike) that gave you an infinite damage loop when someone provoked? Is that all from original books?
Another good one is the power Moment of Glory which completely neuters a lot of low level encounters. If you are hitting the whole group with that thing in heroic it turns every encounter you use it on into a walkthrough.
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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5 months ago ::
Dec 26, 2012 - 9:56PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2009
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Make a Ranger using only books and then challenge your DM to make a Warlock that can even come close to the same damage with the same restriction. Or an Avenger. Or like 10 other strikers. Several classes rely heavily on Dragon material just to make par.
Pixies are pretty strong. Fey Beast Tamer, Ironwrought and Elemental Initiate are very good themes from books. Most of CharOp's favorite Paragon Paths are from books - Morninglord, War Chanter, Battle Captain, etc. Although be aware this could backfire and cause him to start banning more things.
They're not broken in the least, but neither is stuff from Dragon. Dragon material has received the exact same editorial scrutiny and errata as the books. Tell your DM to stop being lazy and evaluate things on a case-by-case basis instead of just blanket restrictions. Or better yet let you play whatever you want and alter encounters as necessary to keep things challenging.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 26, 2012 - 10:09PM
#6
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Kindly remind your DM that this is not 3.0/3.5, and the material from Dragon is in no way more powerful than that presented in the FatSplats. To the contrary, some of the most "broken" stuff was right in PHB1.
3 Rangers and a Warlord, right out of PHB1, and facing Monster Manual 1 creatures? Trolling all the way to the bank.
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
One reach cheese'd threatening reach Spiked Chain shuts down any non-teleporting quarterback.
You're already refluffing, what not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
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5 months ago ::
Dec 26, 2012 - 11:06PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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TheMaltese brings up a good comment. If you are limited to PHB he should be limited to MM1.
Build a party of Rangers and Warlords and see how quickly the game gets boring as you stomp them into the ground without ever being threatened.
Tell him if he is going to be so restrictive that he also has to keep with an appropriate encounter budget and see how that fairs with a semi OP party.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 6:40AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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I think one of the things to talk to him about is why he's concerned about overpowered options if you don't actually have any desire to break the game. He may be concerned about one of the other players who is doing a bit too well with only book options.
If he makes it clear that he has the right to reserve judgment(i.e. use an option which is clearly too powerful or weird in game, then he can discuss taking the option away, toning it down, or outright removal), he might be more open to players taking choices.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 27, 2012 - 7:27AM
#9
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Pixie beastmaster on a raptor. Take twin-strike (ignore beast powers), and rain death from above.
Personally i like 3 warlords (1 of each type) and a slayer.
Ranger's are actually on the weaker side in heroic. Though they catch up quickly in paragon.
There are very few "broken/overpowered" things in heroic.
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 28, 2012 - 2:47AM
#10
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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Thanks for the replies. As a side note, can someone link to a thread that goes over various charge options?
We are using most errata. Most meaing as much as we can remember. We are not using PH1 only, but all of the "regular published books." This oddly excludes anything from essentials, which I neglected to mention earlier (sorry).
I have tried to reason with him, such as:
examining things in a case-by-case basis
altering the problem after it arises
evaluating the balance of splat only options against eachother
evaluating the balance of splat options against other non-splat.
trusting me not to try and "break his game"
but he seems impervious to conventional logic. He seems to think that "if that's the way it is printed, then that is the way it's suppsoed to be". and thinks that things in dragon magazine are generally very broken, and have recieved no review (because they are not writen by writers from DnD or wizards of the coast) So he seems OK with "regular" options which are powerful, but does not want to examine anything else. Strangly though, he also will nerf these "regular" otions on the fly if he thinks they are too good. At this point I will probably jusut not play when he is DMing.
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