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5 months ago ::
Dec 23, 2012 - 3:21PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Dec 19, 2007
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Gooday Couldn't we make some more of the progression changes in numbers gradual and neater? eg for Exp -
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Experience Required |
Difference |
| 1 |
0 |
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| 2 |
500 |
500 |
| 3 |
1000 |
500 |
| 4 |
3000 |
2000 |
| 5 |
6500 |
3500 |
| 6 |
10000 |
3500 |
| 7 |
15000 |
5000 |
| 8 |
25000 |
10000 |
| 9 |
37500 |
12500 |
| 10 |
50000 |
12500 |
| 11 |
70000 |
20000 |
| 12 |
100000 |
30000 |
| 13 |
130000 |
30000 |
| 14 |
170000 |
40000 |
| 15 |
210000 |
40000 |
| 16 |
260000 |
50000 |
| 17 |
310000 |
50000 |
| 18 |
370000 |
60000 |
| 19 |
430000 |
60000 |
| 20 |
500000 |
70000 |
why bother? 1-50k for 10th and 500k for 20th is easy to remember 2-there is a more even progression over the whole 20 levels Likewise Clerics Martial Damage Bonus : goes from nothing to +5. Why not make it more gradual : 14th-15th=+1, 16th-17th=+3, 18th-19th=+5, 20th+=+7 Fighters, Rogues and Monks currently have Martial Damage Bonus of +5/+5/+5/+5/+10/+10/+10/+15/+15/+15/+20/+20/+20 Why not make it more gradual : +3/+5/+5/+7/+10/+10/+12/+15/+15/+17/+20/+20/+20 - With High level Wizzzzards... the spells/level table seemed abit stingy, especially compared to Clerics with their Channel Divinity. I was thinking something like this - 17th : 4 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 18th : 4 3 3 3 2 2 2 1 1 19th : 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 2 1 20th : 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 2
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5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 8:54AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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Absolutely 100% no to wizards getting more spells. Low level wizards (1-5) need help. High level wizards are doing just fine. Right now, all wizards need is some change to cantrips that makes them a little more effective when used at low level without overpowering them at high level. For example, Int bonus should be added to damage with cantrips. Meanwhile, there are some overpowered spells (magic missile, trap the soul, polymorph, and meteor swarm) that need minor tweaks.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 10:52AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2004
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Absolutely 100% no to wizards getting more spells. Low level wizards (1-5) need help. High level wizards are doing just fine. Right now, all wizards need is some change to cantrips that makes them a little more effective when used at low level without overpowering them at high level. For example, Int bonus should be added to damage with cantrips. Meanwhile, there are some overpowered spells (magic missile, trap the soul, polymorph, and meteor swarm) that need minor tweaks.
+1
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5 months ago ::
Dec 29, 2012 - 3:24PM
#4
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2012
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Absolutely 100% no to wizards getting more spells. Low level wizards (1-5) need help. High level wizards are doing just fine. Right now, all wizards need is some change to cantrips that makes them a little more effective when used at low level without overpowering them at high level. For example, Int bonus should be added to damage with cantrips. Meanwhile, there are some overpowered spells (magic missile, trap the soul, polymorph, and meteor swarm) that need minor tweaks.
I agree with the point about magic missile being overpowered and just from an immersion standpoint I don't get the whole 'two magic missiles per level' thing. Wouldn't starting out with one and getting more one at a time be more logical? This is a minor point though and I don't want to get bogged down in it. If ya ask me, 1d4+1 with one to start with was fine.
What did you think of Ray of Frost going from 1d3 to 1d10? I know it was raised to 1d6 + INT mod in 4e but that seemed like the max for me. I guess it's to compensate for the fact that it has limited use whereas the fighter can swing a sword for 1d8 every single round. Idk, what do you guys think of the cantrips that were beefed up in the latest Next playtest?
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5 months ago ::
Dec 30, 2012 - 6:16PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 12, 2012
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What did you think of Ray of Frost going from 1d3 to 1d10? I know it was raised to 1d6 + INT mod in 4e but that seemed like the max for me. I guess it's to compensate for the fact that it has limited use whereas the fighter can swing a sword for 1d8 every single round. Idk, what do you guys think of the cantrips that were beefed up in the latest Next playtest?
I think it's so a wizard will still have some minimal contribution to make after casting four powerful spells (sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth). Since all wizard powers except cantrips are limited per day and weapon attacks were completely nerfed something had to be done to make people even consider playing them.
We wanted to fight Asmodeus but we had no magic weapons, so we made weapons out of second level monks.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 03, 2013 - 7:43PM
#6
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I think it's so a wizard will still have some minimal contribution to make after casting four powerful spells (sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth). Since all wizard powers except cantrips are limited per day and weapon attacks were completely nerfed something had to be done to make people even consider playing them.
This. Exactly this.
Think back to EVERY preconception of a powerful wizard that you've got. Even realizing that D&D needs to be balanced between the classes, the wizard seems like it should stand out. And yet... why are all the actually powerful spells locked away into semi-uselessness?
I mean, the fighter gets to make his most powerful attack every round, and the wizard gets to... choose between hopefully 2 spells and gets to cast one of them. wow.
I also disagree that the cantrips need to be still more powerful. They're cantrips, the least powerful of all the spells, so inconsequential that you can cast them and they require so little energy that they can be cast again and again. But, they also not only do some damage, but also some other effect. 10' less movement and d10 damage? That puts a fighter in plate at a severe disadvantage, since he already can only move 20', which means that I can pretty much freeze him to death as I stroll away. Adding +4 more to that seems too powerful for the least spell in my arsonal. If the base damage was a standard d4, plus INT mod + some effect... well, I could get behind that.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 6:44AM
#7
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From 17 to 20 wizards don't gain any spell slots at all. They don't really gain much of anything really- just a few hp, a couple more preparable spells, and 1 more point of spellcasting bonus. Maybe they don't need more high level slots, but would it really be gamebreaking if they gained a few lower level slots each level, just to distinguish between a level 18 and 20 wizard?
For comparison, at 20th level Fighters gain a 4th combat surge. At 19th level they move up to +5 weapon attack.
The highest levels still offer meanininful progression for other classes, but it feels like the Wizard peaks at 17.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2013 - 9:22AM
#8
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Maybe they are trying to do other things with those high-end dead levels. If Wizards got the ability to, say, make legendary items at 18th level, that would at least be something. "Sure, you're not getting more spells, but you've got the ability to channel all that unused energy into 3 legendary items that you greate over the course of each level 18-20."
Maybe being able to do instant meta-magic a few more times a day... just something.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 06, 2013 - 6:20AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 12, 2012
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I like the dead levels. In 3.5 when you wanted to prestige as a caster it was such a dilemma since you usually ended up missing out on additional spells. With all the dead levels that's no longer an issue, especially stacked up at the end like that.
In fact, you're probably better off starting off w/ 4 levels of fighter to get some HP / etc and then moving to caster, you've really got spell progression to spare w/ the newly balanced rules. After you cast a spell or two there isn't a ton of difference between a caster and a bad fighter at low levels, so why not? Particularly if you played a high elf fighter and selected a damage-dealing spell as your cantrip - at that point you're about two magic missiles different than a first level wizard in terms of missing spells, but you actually still get to participate in combat.
We wanted to fight Asmodeus but we had no magic weapons, so we made weapons out of second level monks.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 06, 2013 - 6:55AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2012
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honestly, i pictured the 11-20 progression of a character as your prestige progression. so with the fighter, if he chooses to go int othe fighter prestige class, he then boosts to 6d6 MDD and gains the combat surge (and yes, i am fine with adding more in), whereas if he goes a different prestige he will be stuck at only 5d6 MDD but gets the other features.
only the prestige wizards (and select prestige classes giving spell progression) would get the real high level slots. another thing to distinguish high level wizards from those who go into other fields.
just a thought
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