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Switch to Forum Live View Phaerimm, The Most Broken Sorcerer!
5 months ago  ::  Dec 22, 2012 - 5:49PM #1
Vincent_Dranoch
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2012
Posts: 88
Take a look on page 187 to 189 from Lost Empires of Faerun.

Play with a Hatchling Phaerimm, your ECL is 3 (1 HD/LA +2). You cast as Sorcerer 1, what means you can get 9th spells at level 20 (+17 sorcerer levels or some PrC fullcaster), what means you will end up with 1 racial HD/17 spellcaster levels/LA +2 casting as Sorcerer 18.

Well, you guys may ask what's special about that, and that's simple:

You cast your spells as SPELL-LIKE ABILITIES.

I wonder casting Wish without XP cost. This thing is like Dweomerkeeper, but with Spell-Like instead Supernatural (that's bad) and it doesn't have a limit of 4 spell-like/supernatural spells per day like Dweomerkeeper (that's VERY VERY GOOD).

The advantage of playing a Phaerimm is to be a Dweomerkeeper on steroids, and the problem is casting as Sorcerer instead of Wizard (which would be able to learn almost every arcane spell).
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 22, 2012 - 6:15PM #2
draco1119
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Date Joined: Sep 25, 2005
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And don't forget the LA buyoff rules. 
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 22, 2012 - 6:40PM #3
Vincent_Dranoch
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2012
Posts: 88

Dec 22, 2012 -- 6:15PM, draco1119 wrote:

And don't forget the LA buyoff rules.




I don't like to use LA buyoff rule, despite its benefit :3

Dec 22, 2012 -- 6:18PM, Cyclone_Joker wrote:

Old news. Really old news. Like, five minutes after the book came out old news.




Old but gold :P

Dec 22, 2012 -- 6:18PM, Cyclone_Joker wrote:

Also, pro tip: When you're playing at that kind of optimization, you play a wizard, and have a bunch of Phaerimm Simulacra.




Indeed, and more:

Be a Red Wizard + Dweomerkeeper to avoid Material and XP cost of Simulacrum, and to cast Simulacrum with caster level 40, which mean you can duplicate any creature of 80 HD but its HD are halved, so you get Revered Elders Phaerimms with 40 HD/40 sorcerer casting levels (no, Phaerimms doesn't have HD advancement limit if someone ask).

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 22, 2012 - 7:32PM #4
Cyclone_Joker
Date Joined: May 19, 2010
Posts: 3,633

Dec 22, 2012 -- 6:40PM, Vincent_Dranoch wrote:

Dec 22, 2012 -- 6:18PM, Cyclone_Joker wrote:

Old news. Really old news. Like, five minutes after the book came out old news.


Old but gold :P


No. Just old.

Dec 22, 2012 -- 6:18PM, Cyclone_Joker wrote:

Also, pro tip: When you're playing at that kind of optimization, you play a wizard, and have a bunch of Phaerimm Simulacra.


Be a Red Wizard + Dweomerkeeper to avoid Material and XP cost of Simulacrum, and to cast Simulacrum with caster level 40, which mean you can duplicate any creature of 80 HD but its HD are halved, so you get Revered Elders Phaerimms with 40 HD/40 sorcerer casting levels (no, Phaerimms doesn't have HD advancement limit if someone ask).


Yeah, no. The single most basic problem with that is that you don't need all that fluff. It can be done at level five without any effort.

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 22, 2012 - 7:48PM #5
Vincent_Dranoch
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2012
Posts: 88

No. Just old.




Why?

Yeah, no. The single most basic problem with that is that you don't need all that fluff. It can be done at level five without any effort.




PunPun? lol

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 22, 2012 - 7:56PM #6
Cyclone_Joker
Date Joined: May 19, 2010
Posts: 3,633

Dec 22, 2012 -- 7:48PM, Vincent_Dranoch wrote:

No. Just old.


Why?


Because it's really old. There's nothing new about it. There's nothing interesting about it. Phaerimms are just one of the ways to ignore components.

The Omnicificer was interesting, the Silly Literalist still is interesting, but, really, there's just nothing interesting here.

Yeah, no. The single most basic problem with that is that you don't need all that fluff. It can be done at level five without any effort.


PunPun? lol


Charm Monster. With a bit of work, you could just use Diplomacy, but Charming the mirror mephits is easier.

I am ORCutus of Borg, 3 of 6. Resistance... is futile. Your life as it has been... is over. From this time forward... you will service... us.

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 22, 2012 - 8:01PM #7
Slagger_the_Chuul
Date Joined: May 26, 2001
Posts: 5,173
I would generally assume that the DM isn't running his game at kiddy grade where the enemies have their brains turned off; my usual response to players asking about such things is to ask them if they're happy for their enemies to have access to the same trick.
The kraken stirs.  And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance.  - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.


= My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience. Show
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness.  It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end.  Each button produces a different effect when pressed.  Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed.
        When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle.
        When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets.
        When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall.
        When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade.
        When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid.  Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water.
If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours.
    Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 22, 2012 - 8:04PM #8
Tempest_Stormwind
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 4,784
It was mentioned nearly as fast as the book came out, then no one touched it (probably because it took all the challenge away). I think the Phaerimm were used in a couple challenges, but none immediately spring to mind.

EDIT: Another good example of this kind of thing is the Shaedling in the MM5. Tsuyoshikentsu found it and quickly found that it could create anything (up to and including artifacts) that was under 15 pounds, despite having a reasonably low ECL. This is ludicrously overpowered - and no one ever touched them again.

Speaking of, Vincent, I'm not sure if you were around earlier (your join date suggests otherwise but I seem to recall your name from a long time ago...), but the Omniscificer was a response to Pun-Pun (and probably about the point when everyone learned that anything that anyone can do, Pun-Pun can also do - but it was still a learning experience), and the Silly Literalist was an older response to a "100^10 Challenge" (which was to get at least +100 to ten specific areas - this obviously predates Pun-Pun. The author, LordOfProcrastination, added guidelines, which included "Q: Do I have to have exactly +100 to these areas to qualify? A: No you don't, you silly literalist." The Silly Literalist was naturally an entry to follow which actually managed to get exactly +100 to all the required areas, using some creative abilities along the way.)
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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows:
[TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)


Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 22, 2012 - 8:17PM #9
Vincent_Dranoch
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2012
Posts: 88

Because it's really old. There's nothing new about it. There's nothing interesting about it. Phaerimms are just one of the ways to ignore components.

The Omnicificer was interesting, the Silly Literalist still is interesting, but, really, there's just nothing interesting here.




Finding something interesting or not is a matter of perspective, so if you want to post in this topic you could spare others from your opinion and focus on the topic proposal itself.

Or you could just don't post here if in your opinion/perspective it's an old and not interesting idea.

It is like you just post this kind of comments to flood and flame.

Charm Monster. With a bit of work, you could just use Diplomacy, but Charming the mirror mephits is easier.




Awful choice, Mirror Mephits casts Simulacrum with CL 8th. I hope you can do better than that.

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 4:30AM #10
Cyclone_Joker
Date Joined: May 19, 2010
Posts: 3,633

Dec 22, 2012 -- 8:17PM, Vincent_Dranoch wrote:

Because it's really old. There's nothing new about it. There's nothing interesting about it. Phaerimms are just one of the ways to ignore components.

The Omnicificer was interesting, the Silly Literalist still is interesting, but, really, there's just nothing interesting here.




Finding something interesting or not is a matter of perspective, so if you want to post in this topic you could spare others from your opinion and focus on the topic proposal itself.

Or you could just don't post here if in your opinion/perspective it's an old and not interesting idea.

It is like you just post this kind of comments to flood and flame.


So you simply posted this to show off you found something everyone else knows about? Okay. See, that's the kind of thing that you should specify in the OP. If you'd said that, I'd not have bothered. My mistake, giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Charm Monster. With a bit of work, you could just use Diplomacy, but Charming the mirror mephits is easier.


 Awful choice, Mirror Mephits casts Simulacrum with CL 8th. I hope you can do better than that.


Oh really?

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