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Switch to Forum Live View opportunity attack Question
5 months ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 12:04PM #11
Plaguescarred
Date Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 16,517

Dec 23, 2012 -- 10:37AM, Emplove wrote:

Can someone explain to me ?


If the Goblin Archer is wielding a shortbow when an enemy provoke an Opportunity Attack, it must use it as an improvised melee weapon or make an unarmed attack since you can't use a ranged weapon to make weapon attack otherwise. As Salla said, for simplicity's sake just use the same attack and damage roll as its melee basic attack power represented by the following icon:  

Yan
Montréal, Canada
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 1:38PM #12
RedSiegfried
Date Joined: Dec 10, 2008
Posts: 1,903

Dec 23, 2012 -- 12:04PM, Plaguescarred wrote:

Dec 23, 2012 -- 10:37AM, Emplove wrote:

Can someone explain to me ?


If the Goblin Archer is wielding a shortbow when an enemy provoke an Opportunity Attack, it must use it as an improvised melee weapon or make an unarmed attack since you can't use a ranged weapon to make weapon attack otherwise. As Salla said, for simplicity's sake just use the same attack and damage roll as its melee basic attack power represented by the following icon:  


Plaguescarred is correct.  And the reason the goblin can't swap weapons is because it would take at least a minor action to do so and the goblin can't take minor actions since it's not his turn. If the gobin had his bow out he could still make a Basic Melee Attack but it has to be with either the bow as an improvised melee weapon or with no weapon at all (unarmed).

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 
3E challenged the character, not the player. 
Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. 
That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 2:34PM #13
Salla
Date Joined: Apr 3, 2003
Posts: 23,524

Dec 23, 2012 -- 1:38PM, RedSiegfried wrote:

Dec 23, 2012 -- 12:04PM, Plaguescarred wrote:

Dec 23, 2012 -- 10:37AM, Emplove wrote:

Can someone explain to me ?


If the Goblin Archer is wielding a shortbow when an enemy provoke an Opportunity Attack, it must use it as an improvised melee weapon or make an unarmed attack since you can't use a ranged weapon to make weapon attack otherwise. As Salla said, for simplicity's sake just use the same attack and damage roll as its melee basic attack power represented by the following icon:  


Plaguescarred is correct.  And the reason the goblin can't swap weapons is because it would take at least a minor action to do so and the goblin can't take minor actions since it's not his turn. If the gobin had his bow out he could still make a Basic Melee Attack but it has to be with either the bow as an improvised melee weapon or with no weapon at all (unarmed).




Or reflavor his short sword attack as smacking you upside the head with his bow.

Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 4:58PM #14
Fardiz
Date Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Posts: 2,194

Dec 23, 2012 -- 12:04PM, Plaguescarred wrote:

Dec 23, 2012 -- 10:37AM, Emplove wrote:

Can someone explain to me ?


If the Goblin Archer is wielding a shortbow when an enemy provoke an Opportunity Attack, it must use it as an improvised melee weapon or make an unarmed attack since you can't use a ranged weapon to make weapon attack otherwise. As Salla said, for simplicity's sake just use the same attack and damage roll as its melee basic attack power represented by the following icon:  




Except that is rubbish, because the name of the power is just fluff. That would only be the case if the required weapon was named in the power.

For an example of this see Tuthak the Pummeler: 


 Barbed Net  At-Will


Requirement: Tuthak must be wielding a barbed net.


Attack: Ranged 5 (one creature); +9 vs. Reflex


Hit: The target is restrained (save ends).


    Each Failed Saving Throw: The target takes 1d6 + 2 damage.

However of the 1000s of the creatures in 4e, only c. 20 actually have this restriction. 



 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks

You might be playing DnD wrong if...

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 5:23PM #15
Plaguescarred
Date Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 16,517
The power above doesn't even have the weapon keyword that identify a power that is used with a weapon Tongue Out

In the case of monster power's name that correspond to a weapon found in his or her equipment, (ex. shortbow, javelin, handaxe etc..) its generally because the power is used with said weapon if the power has the weapon keyword and is of the a type corresponding (melee or ranged).
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 5:33PM #16
Fardiz
Date Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Posts: 2,194
That's because monsters don't actually use weapons, all that is fluff around the game mechanics.

Hence why the 1 or 2 disarming abilities don't function in any meaningful way on most monsters (except the 20 odd mentioned above). 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks

You might be playing DnD wrong if...

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 6:02PM #17
Plaguescarred
Date Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 16,517

Dec 23, 2012 -- 5:33PM, Fardiz wrote:

That's because monsters don't actually use weapons, all that is fluff around the game mechanics.


The Compendium return 2653 hits for weapon in the creatures section, mostly for the weapon keyword, which identify a power used with a weapon. (RC 113)

Many humanoid monsters use weapons in fact, the Dwarf Warrior use a warhammer and a crossbow for exemple.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 24, 2012 - 12:15AM #18
Fardiz
Date Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Posts: 2,194
But we can't assume that the monster weapon is anything like the PC weapon, due to all the different damage expressions. For all we know, the monster is using a weapon that can fire arrows like a shortbow but can also be used to stab like a shortsword.

The long and short of it: there is no need to waste monster actions swapping weapons, it is not required and they can always use all their powers, unless specifically required by the power. 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks

You might be playing DnD wrong if...

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 24, 2012 - 6:06AM #19
Plaguescarred
Date Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 16,517
While excepton exist, Monsters weapon attacks generally use the same [W] and Range/Reach as PC. Even properties like High Crit is usually found in Scimitar powers. Take the Human Guard for exemple:

His Halberd's Reach 2 and use d10 and his Crossbow's Range is 15/30 and use d8.


 Halberd (standard, at-will)  Weapon
Reach 2; +10 vs AC; 1d10+3 damage, and the target is marked until the end of the human guard’s next turn.
 Crossbow (standard, at-will)  Weapon
Ranged 15/30; +9 vs AC; 1d8+2 damage.

Equipment
chainmailcrossbowcrossbow bolts (20)halberd. 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 24, 2012 - 8:59AM #20
RedSiegfried
Date Joined: Dec 10, 2008
Posts: 1,903

Hmmm ... rethinking this, I would have to honestly say that RAW, no, the monster doesn't actually NEED the named weapon to make his attack, but since I can't recall seeing any monster attack powers that do W damage, the damage is going to be whatever the power says regardless of the weapon wielded.  And unarmed and improvised are weapons, so they fulfill the conditions for the attack power but still do the same static damage.

But I'm still going to require my monsters to actually have the weapon in hand their attack power implies.  Cause if I had archers switching back and forth between bow and sword freely my other players would pounce on me. 

I mean, as a Paladin I can Holy Strike someone by punching them, I just do less damage than if I had used my longsword because the attack does 1(W) damage.  For most monsters, it's static damage so there you go, I guess. 

I guess you could call this another instance of "monsters work different than PCs."

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 
3E challenged the character, not the player. 
Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. 
That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."
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