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5 months ago ::
Dec 22, 2012 - 1:36PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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The current playtest packet looks like an improvement over the last one but I think I am done with this game. Most of the classes look a little intersting (except the wizard) and they are getting alot of feedback based on the classes and responding to it and thats a good thing.
However I'm the DM for my group and more importantly I also live in the real world. I live in New Zealand and the cost of computer ink here is close to $100 USD for a new ink cartridge. I was looking forward to playing D&DN this weekend and went to print out the beastiary. Its 95 pages long.
I had already printed out the classes, How to play, spells, manuveurs etc but I was looking at several hundred pages of rules to print out. I don't have a laptop and after having DDN for a few years I need something in dead tree format. This playtest packet has more pages than the 1st ed PHB.
Its a playtest and I realise that. I have done betas online etc but its not really costing you as a consumer except a little bit of you time to try it out. This beta is to much effort being blunt as they have only included a few sample adventures and my time is limited. If I am going to put in the time required really play this I will just put that time into developing my own stuff for 3.XYZ, 2nd ed or even Star Wars Saga. D&DN has to be easier to access though and it doesn't help that all of the current D&DN adventures are more or less dungeon hacks.
Finally bounded accuracy just annoys me and I do not recall asking for it, wanting it and they seem unwilling to remove it and this current playtest they took it to extremes. The skill system annoys me no end as well also due to BA and this skill dice no offence just looks stupid.3rd ed got out of hand I admit with ACs and DCs being all over the place, 4th ed went nuts on hit points. Dial them back by all means I suggest an upper limit of AC/DC 30-40 or so, 25 is to low IMHO. Bounded accuracy has done some silly things to armor as well. Its bad when one prefers AD&D armor and weapon rules over D&DN. Something that was easily done in 1989 seems to hard to achieve in 2012. 3rd and 4th ed also had better rules in this regard.
They also seem semi clueless on dead levels and combined with bounded accuracy there are levels where you only get hit points as candy, not even +1 to hit or a THACO increase. Combine with only 4 feats ever and yeah BORING. Whatever ones opinion is on Pathfinder, 4th ed and even Star Wars Saga (the post 3.5 d20 modern games) they all have one thing in commen. No dead levels. If they can't balance it mechanically give the classes non combat abilites or take a hard look at why they can't balance it (inflate the power level a bit). Shake and bake the big 3 (3rd ed, 4thed, SWSE) and I think you could come up with somehting better than D&DN.
By know we know what went wrong wih 3.5 and 4th ed. In some ways I think 4th ed was an over reaction to the problems of 3.5. D&DN seems to be an over reaction to the problems of 4th ed. Each time WoTC has gone to reinvent the wheel they have kind of screwed it up.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 22, 2012 - 1:45PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2012
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I for one will miss your input Z. If I had to print up the whole pack I would take it to my business printer, they would run that out in a few minutes for under 10$. And I'm with you there, if I was actively playtesting then I would want a hardcopy.
Anyway, its been great reading your input and thoughts about gaming in general, I hope you will stop in and say hello or even better just keep reading and speaking to the changes even if you are not actively playtesting.
Enjoy the summer. Do you guys do a holiday season for christmas?
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5 months ago ::
Dec 22, 2012 - 1:47PM
#3
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Your quitting because they gave you too much?
Really, just don't print everything.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 22, 2012 - 1:49PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
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I haven't printed anything. I just read it off my computer and write out little cheat sheets.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 22, 2012 - 1:52PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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This is what laptops and tablets are for :P
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5 months ago ::
Dec 22, 2012 - 1:55PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2012
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This is what laptops and tablets are for :P
Guess you missed the part where he said “I don’t have a laptop, and I need something in a dead tree format.” 
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5 months ago ::
Dec 22, 2012 - 1:55PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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Samrin not everyone in the group has and uses tablets/laptops.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 22, 2012 - 3:24PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2006
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Samrin not everyone in the group has and uses tablets/laptops.
I have laptop and tablet, I print it. I three hole punch it, I put it into a binder with tabs...everytime.
But on the topic, I don't mind the playtest, and keep every copy, it's a playtest. I file my issues with them, every chance I get, and playtest.
My players do the same, but over all, they are having a great time.
We don't "do the math", we don't care about "equality" among races or classes. We play to have fun. Until we notice we cannot "have fun" these itmes have zero weight in our evaluation.
Browncoats Unite...
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5 months ago ::
Dec 22, 2012 - 3:25PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2006
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you can print things at libraries and colleges for pennies on the page.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 22, 2012 - 3:38PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Feb 22, 2012
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Keep in mind he is from new Zealand. if it is costing him $100 for ink he probably isn't going to find a library/college to do it that cheap. With that said you don't have to print a single page. I tend to use note cards to keep track of monsters. Have everyone make characters before the game session or use pre gens. Write important things down. You don't have to print the whole thing and right now dead tree would cost you more than printing
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