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Dec 22, 2012 -- 5:43AM, Zathris wrote:

It's also clearly not updated, so I really think it's a bit egotistical to be self-linking it as much as MwaO has been doing. Has anyone other than him actually played it from 1-16?  The build, and the way it's presented in its thread are reminiscent of builds by langwiele from 4 years ago or the joke-oppers over in DPR kings, making no mention of defenses, only showing the Build at optimal levels as opposed to LDB/Auspex style by-level breakdowns, draws assumptions about Nova and DPR capacity that is only possible with specific class PartyOp, and assumes the DM is tactically inept tofu.

I dislike calling out a regular as a LSM, since the last time I did it was with Lang and it drove him off the boards, but MwaO's builds are just as much trash as Langs or melloreds. Good, really optimized builds, fix their holes, these builds don't even admit they have them, it's not Optimization, more like Foxtimzation.

Right...

Annie Oakley has roughly the exact same feat progression that Shoot to Thrill has. She wants the same items. She has about the same defenses except she can gain total concealment vs. getting a reroll. She deals with being in close range the same way that Shoot to Thrill does, except again, she can gain total concealment and do Mantle of Unity. When acting that way, she has roughly the same capabilities as Shoot to Thrill does at roughly the same levels at a slight loss of damage. I make the exact same assumptions that LDB does about what is possible. Heck, LDB took the same feats in order for a while when he was using a Crossbow when Elves couldn't get sneak attack with a bow any longer. Except she can toss down Mantle of Unity, has a heal, and is a party face instead of a healer.

Of course, I call this all out and literally mention Shoot to Thrill as being the heart of the build - if it wasn't sufficiently clear to you, you could have asked in the build thread and I would have made it more clear. If you can't make it work or figure it out, you should have roughly the same problems with Shoot to Thrill in Heroic.

I haven't made any claims that's she's one heck of a leader or better than Shoot to Thrill at being a Striker. She isn't. But when one is in a party that desperately needs a solid ranged striker for a non-CharOp group(and strangely enough, I can identify those posts based on how the questioner asks it) and no one wants to be the leader, it makes a good character, probably too good of a character just as Shoot to Thrill is too good for the typical group.  And I know some regulars have issues with Shoot to Thrill as being insufficiently optimized compared to 'modern' builds. But a lot of the time, one of the things about having actual system mastery is recognizing that posters often won't like what happens when they use a 'modern' CharOp build in a campaign not expecting it.

I have a simple suggestion for you Zathris. Next time you have a problem with a build, let that person actually know what specific problems(and not 'oh, minor action problems', point out the situation where you think there will be too many minor actions needed) you have with it. Rather than being snarky as a reflex, try being helpful first. And do it in the relevant thread, which in this case would be the build thread.

People might actually respect your views rather than putting you on ignore.

Dec 22, 2012 -- 8:38AM, svendj wrote:

Dec 22, 2012 -- 7:29AM, ezrider23 wrote:

Well here he is, my less than stellar leader for my un-opped party. Pretty much lifted from the Pre-Gen thread because...well, those really were some of the better options.

Thanks to Matyr and Svendj.

I went Tiefling for access to some of their feats though we could have easily been a Half-Elf for Dilletante and Versatile Master, i really don't know which would be better. Any further thoughts on the build would be greatly appreciated. 

Tiefling is of course also awesome. Hooray for Imperious Majesty and Secrets of Belial. 

Virtue of Cunning should be Valor, I assume? Or will be retrained at 11 so you can take War Chanter?

If you're taking Sensate as a theme, you also got to have an Eager Hero's Tattoo for a +3 power bonus to skills out of combat. +3 power bonus, +2 item bonus, +3 feat bonus to untrained, I don't think you ever need to worry about skill checks ^__^

If you want to use melee powers too, consider getting ki focus proficiency (Elemental Initiate or a multiclass) so you can easily switch between melee and ranged weapons, or use a thrown melee weapon like a dagger or javelin. 

Thanks for the catch on the Virtue. That indeed should be Valor for Warchanter.
I'll need to check out that Tattoo. I didn't realize how rediculously high my skill scores would be.
I thought about the Ki Focus route but i just though the Sehanine/ short bow angle fit better. Trying to keep some roleplay flavor in the build and that just fit.

I was also Working on a Half-Elf(Matrim Cauthon inspired) build that utilized a Farbond Spell Glaive. Had a few "Luck/Unluck" based powers and the seer theme and MC Swordmge + ResLord. Though that build might have been better as a Ki focused build that used the glaive and daggers. Try to fit in quick draw and maybe MC monk instead of swordmage and grab starblade flurry(if that would work). Worship the Traveler and open up traveler's harlequin as a PP option. Wouldn't be terribly op but would fit with this crew of jokers.