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6 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:10PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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So, a lot of people don’t like the +20 flat martial damage bonus. It seems to put some people off. Another group of old-school gamers really misses the ability to use multiple attacks and do neat things with multiple attacks. And finally, right now, weapon damage really doesn’t seem to matter much right now. I have a proposed fix which would keep things balanced… Replace the first +5 increment of the flat martial damage bonus with Martial Combatant: You are so skilled in weapon combat that you can follow up on your primary attack with a secondary blow. You gain one extra attack. You may not add any damage bonuses (other than what you gain from a critical hit) to this attack. It deals only its weapon's damage die/dice. You may give up this extra attack in order to perform an action that does not deal damage. Replace every +5 increment of the flat martial damage bonus after that with Improved Martial Combatant: The damage for your secondary attack increases by +1 die of whatever size your base weapon deals. If your base weapon deals 2d6 damage, you instead gain +2d6 damage. You may give up each die (or pair of dice) gained by Improved Martial Combatant in order to perform an action that does not deal damage.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:12PM
#2
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Not a bad option, not a bad option at all. Only issue I see is slowdown, but that might not bother some people.
My two copper.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:13PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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Not a bad option, not a bad option at all. Only issue I see is slowdown, but that might not bother some people.
I don't think it will cause a lot of slowdown. Mostly it will just add one attack roll worth of time dump. Of course, when people start using extra actions that will slow things down a little... but with combats lasting so few rounds, I don't think it would be a big deal.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:16PM
#4
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It does solve the weapon scaling problem...
But it also makes magic weapons much more powerful.
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:18PM
#5
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- Unconventional Mafia Pro
- Dark Lord
Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2001
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It causes significant slowdown for the fighter, but that's plenty acceptable. Not a bad option, though the math could probably stand to be fine tuned.
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice." THE COALITION WAR GAME-Phyrexian Praetor Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill) Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills) Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill) Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills) Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills) Round 6: (8-7-1) [current round] Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920
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6 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:19PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
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Currently, you can get both multiple attacks AND do a number of fancy things.
Volley and Whirlwind Attack both give you multiple attacks (1 extra per die spent). You just can't stack them up all on one guy. That said, putting all your dice to damage is effectively like hitting one guy a bunch of times; you just roll one attack roll.
Now, for fancy things. A fighter can: disarm the target (1 die, assuming 1-handed weapon), knock the target down (1 die, assuming medium creature), and shove the target 5 feet (1 die, assuming medium creature), all from an extra 5 feet away (lunge, 1 die). And you still have 2 dice to spare to add to damage (or disarm a 2-handed weapon, knock down a bigger creature, and/or shove a bigger creature).
To me, that seems seriously awesome. If your only issue is that fact that you don't actually make multiple d20 attack rolls...just give the new system a chance.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:21PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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It does solve the weapon scaling problem...
But it also makes magic weapons much more powerful.
No it doesn't. Read the way it's worded. You can't add your magical damage bonus to the second attack. So, at the levels where you would get a +20 damage bonus in this packet, someone with a +3 magic weapon and a 1d8 longsword would deal 4d8 with his second attack--not 4d8+12. (Though, I guess the attack bonus does help you land that bonus damage with a higher statistical probability... but is that such a bad thing? I mean, if you are dealing 4d8 damage, that +3 adds +2.7 damage to your DPR. Not that big of a deal...)
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6 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:25PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2010
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I don't like extra attacks because it bogs things down with a bunch of extra rolling.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:26PM
#9
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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So, a lot of people don’t like the +20 flat martial damage bonus. It seems to put some people off. Another group of old-school gamers really misses the ability to use multiple attacks and do neat things with multiple attacks. And finally, right now, weapon damage really doesn’t seem to matter much right now. I have a proposed fix which would keep things balanced…
Replace the first +5 increment of the flat martial damage bonus with Martial Combatant: You are so skilled in weapon combat that you can follow up on your primary attack with a secondary blow. You gain one extra attack. You may not add any damage bonuses (other than what you gain from a critical hit) to this attack. It deals only its weapon's damage die/dice. You may give up this extra attack in order to perform an action that does not deal damage.
Replace every +5 increment of the flat martial damage bonus after that with Improved Martial Combatant: The damage for your secondary attack increases by +1 die of whatever size your base weapon deals. If your base weapon deals 2d6 damage, you instead gain +2d6 damage. You may give up each die (or pair of dice) gained by Improved Martial Combatant in order to perform an action that does not deal damage.
damage does not matter that much but action economy does. Can we replace attack with action?
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6 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:26PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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Currently, you can get both multiple attacks AND do a number of fancy things.
Volley and Whirlwind Attack both give you multiple attacks (1 extra per die spent). You just can't stack them up all on one guy. That said, putting all your dice to damage is effectively like hitting one guy a bunch of times; you just roll one attack roll.
Now, for fancy things. A fighter can: disarm the target (1 die, assuming 1-handed weapon), knock the target down (1 die, assuming medium creature), and shove the target 5 feet (1 die, assuming medium creature), all from an extra 5 feet away (lunge, 1 die). And you still have 2 dice to spare to add to damage (or disarm a 2-handed weapon, knock down a bigger creature, and/or shove a bigger creature).
To me, that seems seriously awesome. If your only issue is that fact that you don't actually make multiple d20 attack rolls...just give the new system a chance.
Arithzoo, you have just made comments without actually reading the OP very carefully and ended up talking about something completely unrelated. I am not proposing that any of the things the fighter can do now be taken away. You still get martial damage dice. By level 11 you still get +6d6 martial damage dice. You still add those as a bonus to your primary attack or spend them on maneuvers.
This proposal replaced your martial damage bonus not your martial damage dice. It gives you more neat combinations from round to round, not less. It just takes that flat +20 damage bonus you get by level 20 and turns it into one extra attack that does 4[w] damage e(to borrow 4e nomenclature), each [w] of which can be traded for an action that does not deal damage.
A fighter, thus, gains a benefit to his DPR in the form of his weapon proficiency. By using higher damage dice weapons he will have a slight bonus to his DPR potential. A rogue, meanwhile, also gets a slight bonus; while its potential DPR goes down, its ability to use skill tricks in the same round that it deals damage goes up.
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