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5 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:08PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2008
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So an old friend of mine is starting a new game, and has invited me to play in it. We've been friends for years and have never played due to one simple problem: He hates options and I love them. He's an old school 3.5"PHB only" DM, and I can't get it through his head that, A: That doesn't keep people from breaking games and B: It doesn't work that way in 4e anyway.
He really wants me to play, but doesn't want me pulling anything from any books besides PHB 1, 2, or 3. How do I convince him that just because I would like more than 4 at-wills to choose from, or the ability to play a functional Paladin doesn't mean his game will be ripped into shreads and be unplayable for anyone? I did finally get permission to "cherry pick" a couple of powers from other sources, but that hardly covers all the bases. For instance another player really wants to run a Hexblade because he likes Duskblade in 3.5. He's boned under the current ruling on what is/isn't allowed. So far I'm banking on the fact that he wants to run a mini campaign to get to know the players he isn't familiar with yet (Me, the Hexblade in question, my roommate). Problem is, he's incredibly skeptical and I'm not actually sure any amount of math/simulations/discussion will convince him that splat books and options don't ruin games, and instead they enhance them.
So...suggestions? I'm certainly open to them.
And for the record, I'm wanting to run a Half-Orc Warden|Cleric with a Scythe that takes the Battle Cleric powers. So broken amirite?
Edit: Bro, if/when you see this, I am *NOT* trying to call you out. I just figured if you heard it from some other people than myself, people who know the system better than I do and can explain things better than me it might put your mind at ease, or even give some ideas on how YOU can become more comfortable with stuff. So make an account, join the discussion, and lets all talk! :D
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5 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:18PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2011
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Wow, that'll be an awful build.
Actually some of the most broken and overpowerd stuff was in the original PHB. Not sure that helps your argument at all, even if he believes you. He clearly isn't being rational about this, so my best suggestion would be don't let him DM.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:21PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2010
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Dear arkthepieking's DM, quit being hardheaded. Let your players use everything available to them, INCLUDING DRAGON. It's kinda tough to build something super-crazy-gamebreaking-awesome in 4e. If they manage to, say "That was fun, now that it's out of your system, tone it down". Also, 4e is not 3.x, so don't treat it as such. Read up on it, and figure it all out before making sweeping declarations and changes to everything. And arkthepieking's PC is, well, I lol'd at Scythe.
edit: DSMReference is right. A party of fighter, ranger, wizard, and warlord, even right out of the PHB can curbstomp standard encounters.
Wizards of the Coast can suck it.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:43PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
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Is he new to 4E? Are the players? If so, maybe he shouldn't be trying to start out with a whole campaign. I'd recommend running some one shot games to let the DM and the players get a feel for the system and what does and doesn't work. That is how I typically introduce new players to the game, especially if they are coming from 3.5.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:50PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2007
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So...suggestions? I'm certainly open to them.
Can you get him to post here? I would like to talk to him for a little while, in a reasonable manner, to try and sell him on 4e splats.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
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5 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 3:56PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2008
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Is he new to 4E? Are the players? If so, maybe he shouldn't be trying to start out with a whole campaign. I'd recommend running some one shot games to let the DM and the players get a feel for the system and what does and doesn't work. That is how I typically introduce new players to the game, especially if they are coming from 3.5.
I think he's fairly new. He doesn't know the hybrid rules, and he says (part of) the reason he wants to limit things is because he doesn't want to have to deal with powers/class features/feats he's not familiar with. I've tried to get him to run one-shots, but he says he doesn't like them so the mini-campaign I believe is a sort of compromise on that.
Can you get him to post here? I would like to talk to him for a little while, in a reasonable manner, to try and sell him on 4e splats.
I can certainly try! I think that's a good idea. Hearing it from someone else might help quite a bit. Its one thing for the guy who wants access to everything to say "Sure, I won't break your game *cackles maniacally*". Its another when you hear it from people who are removed from the situation. I'll see what I can do on that front.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 4:03PM
#7
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2009
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Can you get him to post here? I would like to talk to him for a little while, in a reasonable manner, to try and sell him on 4e splats.
I can certainly try! I think that's a good idea. Hearing it from someone else might help quite a bit. Its one thing for the guy who wants access to everything to say "Sure, I won't break your game *cackles maniacally*". Its another when you hear it from people who are removed from the situation. I'll see what I can do on that front.
I uh... think Armisael was joking when he mentioned "reasonable manner". And if I'm reading his post wrong and he does stay reasonable, be prepared for your DM to be assaulted by others.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 4:06PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2007
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No, I was not being sarcastic or joking. People refusing to accept 4e splats is something I take really seriously because way too many classes are gimps because of it. If I can turn Ark's DM around to see things like we all do by refraining from talking in my usual gruff way, I'll gladly spend half an hour writing messages for it.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
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5 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 4:09PM
#9
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2009
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No, I was not being sarcastic or joking. People refusing to accept 4e splats is something I take really seriously because way too many classes are gimps because of it. If I can turn Ark's DM around to see things like we all do by refraining from talking in my usual gruff way, I'll gladly spend half an hour writing messages for it.
Hats off to you then 
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5 months ago ::
Dec 20, 2012 - 4:15PM
#10
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Try pointing out original blade cascade to him as an example of the original stuff being broken.
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