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Dec 29, 2012 -- 5:59PM, Maxperson wrote:

Dec 29, 2012 -- 3:05PM, Garthanos wrote:

Dec 29, 2012 -- 8:49AM, Maxperson wrote:

 
Atlantes
Farmer Weathersky
Jannes and Jambres 

Not one was mentioned in the 2e players handbook.... and every one which was mentioned was also a DemiGod...

I don't remember any wizards mentioned in the PHB other than Bigby and such. 

The same kind of side-bar I found the legendary and mythic fighters listed in (which werent all demigods), was there for wizards...  and those demigods of magic none of them were as potent as high level D&D wizards.. 

Dec 29, 2012 -- 11:17AM, penandpaper2 wrote:

Magic, magic, everywhere.

I understand why people may think you could build a fighter using, let's say three paths, and two of those could be magical.  That leaves one for the people who don't want magical fighters.

As Ravenmancer pointed out, that's not what people are asking for when they say they want magic options for the fighter.  Saying that only one mundane path will be available and twice as many magic ones will be available entirely misrepresents what's being sought.  Also, it's quite simple enough to offer the fighter magic through a list of optional magic maneuvers.  This is especially true of minor magical feats the fighter would very likely want to learn, like summoning his weapon into his hands (instead of having to chase after it when disarmed).

Dec 29, 2012 -- 11:17AM, penandpaper2 wrote:

The problem is, with the way the game's designed, you will never not have a magical fighter, because those paths crossed many times.  I also understand how people think that fighters should just have innate magic, this way it's not obvious magic.  But again, for many that breaks continuity.

That seems inaccurate to me because people who need for fighters to not have magic will simply not make magical fighters.  You say it will never happen.  However, as long as the non-magical versions aren't inferior to the magic-using versions, it remains a matter of personal preference as to which one to pick.  The existence of a magic option alone doesn't grab you by the sack and force you to take it.

Dec 29, 2012 -- 11:17AM, penandpaper2 wrote:

This is one of those things where we need to accept that high level magic is stronger than a high level martial character.  And if the mechanics dictate otherwise, then it doesn't seem to fit our perceptions of typical fantasy (which so many are fond to point out that D&D is).  Why not just accept this fact?  Most stories I know compensate for this via storyline anyway.

Typical fantasy.  Interesting.  There's 2 ways to take that.  The first, which I think you meant, is traditional fantasy.  The second, is fantasy that most frequently available.  Caster supremacy is a truism in only traditional fantasy.  Typical fantasy includes quite a few examples of fightery types who augment their abilities with magic.

Dec 29, 2012 -- 12:40AM, Tectorman wrote:

Personally, I like the idea that everyone in the universe would have some capacity with magic.

+1. When I read the title of the thread, I thought the poster meant *everyone* having magic, meaning peasants. I think I've read a few stories about peasants casting spells. Usually in those stories the spell backfires somehow and the moral is don't cast magic, which I guess must have been a major safety consideration in the middle ages.

In the real world, most common folk in high-tech areas have a basic functional understanding of technology. Give just about anyone some spell components (a battery, a few wires, and a lightbulb) and a couple of hours to work at it, and most people could put together a basic Light spell. Using the "magic=technology" rule, I would call that taking 20 on casting a minor spell.

Every commoner on Earth knows a couple of superstitions. Many people know a simple prayer or two. We even have commoner level pact magic, in the sense that anyone can pay $7.99 a month to get unlimited access to the spells of Hypnotize Self and Rot Brain. I'd expect that in a high-magic world, any determined commoner would be able to put together a basic spell within a couple of hours.

Dec 29, 2012 -- 9:54PM, Maxperson wrote:

Dec 29, 2012 -- 9:51PM, Saelorn wrote:

Merlin, Circe, Medea.

I would argue that Merlin and Circe (a minor goddess of magic) are as powerful as any D&D wizard. 

Circe was renowned for her vast knowledge of drugs and herbs. Through the use of magical potions and a wand she transformed her enemies into animals. A D&D wizard can alter reality 1/day and rewind time. I'd have to give the win to D&D wizards...