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6 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 7:46PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 28, 2006
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I really don't understand why they don't just take the final leap and use spell points. After all, they've already stopped using spell slots for preparation (wizards prepare [level +1] total spells now) and they've basically added in augmenting from 3.5 psionics, but it works clumsily with spell slots. There's really no good reason to have spells per day partitioned by level anymore.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 8:09PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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part of me agrees.. also I think prepared spells should be level + intellegance bonus.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 8:42PM
#3
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Yeah, it's very easy to do spell points that ends up allowing you to prepare spells exactly the same as you would with spell slots, just you have a great deal more flexibility.
I get some people love Vancian magic, but they're by far in the minority. Every game that wasn't D&D at least changed one thing, and it was the magic. Everything else might be mostly the same, but nobody ever copied D&D's magic system.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 21, 2012 - 6:53AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2008
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I am a big proponent of Spell Points (always have been). They have stated that three methods of Magic (Vancian, Spell Points, and AEDU) will be made for Next. Vancian will be Standard and Spell Points and AEDU will be Modules. They won't give us Spell Points or AEDU Modules to Playtest until they have the Core Game near completion (Rules look good, but Classes and Races are still in transition).
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6 months ago ::
Dec 21, 2012 - 7:08AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2007
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Seriously. This system is too complex and restricting and there are a million better ideas out there. And if it must be kept, just go ahead and give us other options so we can skip it.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 21, 2012 - 8:37AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2010
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Actually, I liked where one of the earlier packets was going with regards to spell points. The Sorcerer was the only caster with a spell point system, and to me that makes sense if we are going back to a Vancian type of system.
Wizards are the scholars of spell casting, so it makes sense they would be stuck with a rigid system but have access to more spells via their spell book. Clerics are at the mercy of how their god(s) give them power.
Sorcerers perform magic through raw talent and force of will/personality. But they do so with fewer spells to choose from and no outside means of accessing more spells. So having them be more flexible but with fewer spells to choose from makes perfect sense to me.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 21, 2012 - 9:35AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Feb 18, 2009
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Another +1 for Spell Points. It's an easier system to understand, keep track of, and customize what spells you use. It also has the advantage of never screwing you over with having to take old spells. Don't want to cast your 3 1st level spells today? Fine, convert them into 1 3rd level spell.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 21, 2012 - 10:51AM
#8
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Actually, I liked where one of the earlier packets was going with regards to spell points. The Sorcerer was the only caster with a spell point system, and to me that makes sense if we are going back to a Vancian type of system.
Except the Vancian system never made sense to begin with, so there's no 'making sense' in anything that involves going back to it.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 22, 2012 - 7:15PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2010
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Another +1 for Spell Points. It's an easier system to understand, keep track of, and customize what spells you use. It also has the advantage of never screwing you over with having to take old spells. Don't want to cast your 3 1st level spells today? Fine, convert them into 1 3rd level spell.
Except the Vancian system never made sense to begin with, so there's no 'making sense' in anything that involves going back to it.
Some 20 years ago while in college, I dropped D&D like a bad habit and played another system which used spell points. The problem was that ALL casters, even psionic classes, used a form of spell points. While there was an RP reason everything was common, it also caused issues with spell point regen rules among other things.
I will be the first to tell you that all Vancian isn't the greatest thing around, but I will also be the first to warn you against asking for an all Spell Point system. In all honesty, I think that the 4e method of At-Will, Encounter, and Daily is a great compromise between the two systems. It meets the basic requirements of Vancian (At-Will = Cantrips, Daily = Daily) while recognizing a middle-ground between those two with Encounter powers.
But I stand by my earlier comment. Vancian is a fine system for scholarly Wizards and divine Clerics. Have spell points alongside for specific classes, like the Sorcerer as presented in an earlier packet. I'll never know why they backed away from that class; I thought the juxtaposition of Sorcerer and the other casters brought a level of depth worthy of 5e.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 22, 2012 - 9:19PM
#10
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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Spell Points creates a problem when you get to high levels because then you can start casting fifteen Power Word: Kills in a day. High level magic is balanced around not being able to use much of it, and they give it more power to compensate, which I think makes it more unique. The option exists to make high level spells cost significantly more spell points, but that then presents the problem of not being able to cast many of your other spells if you choose to use them.
I think things are headed in the right direction with preparation not being equal to casting, because it lets you prepare a scaleable spell and use it at whatever level you need it at without having to commit it to a spell level before hand.
I honestly think that the new system is easier to teach and learn and understand than 3.5's Vancian-ness, and more interesting to use. I like spell points as an option for appropriate classes, but I agree with Trick that it works well for spells that come from study and prayer. Magic is like diving down into a chasm with a river running through it. You can reach the bottom every now and then, but if you keep trying to do it you'll drown.
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