1d12 > 1d10> +5 stat > 1d8 > +4 stat > 1d6... So high level training does surpass brute knowllage.
Novice with 18 Int: d20+d4+4 (average 17, minimum 6, maximum 28) Master with 12 Int: d20+d10+1 (average 17, minimum 3, maximum 31)
So being trained, rather than talented, means that you are *worse* at trivial tasks, about the same at average tasks and can get beaten at the extreme end. The skill die *does not* interact with ability modifiers nicely *at all*.
As for the two feats mentioned above, great, concept taxes!
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
1d12 > 1d10> +5 stat > 1d8 > +4 stat > 1d6... So high level training does surpass brute knowllage.
Novice with 18 Int: d20+d4+4 (average 17, minimum 6, maximum 28) Master with 12 Int: d20+d10+1 (average 17, minimum 3, maximum 31)
So being trained, rather than talented, means that you are *worse* at trivial tasks, about the same at average tasks and can get beaten at the extreme end. The skill die *does not* interact with ability modifiers nicely *at all*.
As for the two feats mentioned above, great, concept taxes!
They aren't concept taxes at all. If you want to show skill above and beyond just "being trained" you choose a feat. The skill die automatically scales with level so the only way two trained individuals of equal experience can have varying levels of skill is through those feats.
I'm liking this. It reinforces areas of expertise for each class while being coherent overall. Also it mitigates the swinginess of the single d20 roll by adding another dice. Think you are on to something here.
I don't like Skill Die for many reasons. Its just a Random Skill Modifier Generator.
All your Skills modifiers now augment with level by die size, as opposed to be selective through Skill Improvement as it was before. I enjoyed the former more than the latter and think its another customization method gotten away with.
I don't like the variance of die to demonstrate training. I think the randomness should be in the task reslution alone and not in the modifier as it is too swingy. Also, it can make the difference too slim or too large between trained vs untrained depending on how lucky you are. And training factor should not rely on luck.
@plauge. While rolling 2 dice increases the maximum difference, you also have a bigger chance of rolling "average". So it's actually a bit less swingy.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
@plauge. While rolling 2 dice increases the maximum difference, you also have a bigger chance of rolling "average". So it's actually a bit less swingy. I agree with training individual skills though.
+1. As I said, I think making skill training a die is one of the things I have loved most about D&DN since the start. It is right up there with bounded accuracy. It is a core mechanic that I think is a MASSIVE improvement.
Meanwhile, for those that want to help push statistics in their favor a little more, there is a feat that makes your min roll a 10, a feat that allows you to roll 2d20 and take the best result, and a class feature that allows you to roll 2 skill dice and take the best result. Between all those options, you can make your statistical probability quite high.
@plauge. While rolling 2 dice increases the maximum difference, you also have a bigger chance of rolling "average". So it's actually a bit less swingy.
Thats a class feature of 1 class, not a general rules of Skill Die available to everyone.
It help for Rogue's Skill Mastery, but complicate things for everyone else.
@plauge. While rolling 2 dice increases the maximum difference, you also have a bigger chance of rolling "average". So it's actually a bit less swingy.
Thats a class feature of 1 class, not a general rules of Skill Die available to everyone.
It help Skill Mastery at low level only, but complicate things for everyone else at all levels.
I think what he means by 2 dice is that you are rolling both a d20 and another die, not referring to Rogue skill mastery. The use of Skill mastery as a die means that the roll probabilities favor a bell curve, since you have to have 2 good rolls to hit the top end, and 2 poor rolls to hit the low end. The middle, meanwhile, will tend to occure twice as often (low d20, high skill/high d20, low skill).
The net resuilt is that skill dice will provide a chance to hit greater extremes in rare cases, but in general will actually make you, on the whole, more reliably able to hit your average expectations.
Susan Summerson from the Hell breaks loose Flavorful Voting Game http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29076567/Hell_breaking_loose:_an_Avacyn_Restored_voting_game?pg=1
Susan Summerson also appeared in the Innistrad Mafia Game http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28609371/Innistrad_Mafia?pg=1
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@plauge. While rolling 2 dice increases the maximum difference, you also have a bigger chance of rolling "average". So it's actually a bit less swingy.
Thats a class feature of 1 class, not a general rules of Skill Die available to everyone.
It help for Rogue's Skill Mastery, but complicate things for everyone else.
I double checked the math.
There is no change in swingyness in the middle (13 to 21 with a 1d20+1d12 vs 1d20+6). You just strech out the low and high end. (and a 2.5% shift since 1d12->6.5 and not 6). It's still 5% for each point difference.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
