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Dungeons & Dra.. Playtest Packet Di.. House rules you're using/have used/want to test
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 19, 2012 - 6:50AM #1
fougerec
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 134
One of the things I enjoy about playtesting is that one does have the opportunity to try out new things and make suggestions.  So here's some things we use, along with a note about how they worked out.

Surprise - We either give Advantage to the "surpriser" or Disadvantage to the "Surprised" on Initiative.  We've found that we like the Advantage option better since some classes and feats have abilities keyed off having Advantage.  It can make tactical decisions have a greater impact than just "I go first".

Charging - We don't require a feat.  That's just dumb.  Charging in our game allows you to move up to your speed and make a melee attack with Advantage BUT all attacks against you gain Advantage until your next turn.  It represents a single minded focus on one target that you rush to, heedless of danger.

Advantage/Disadvantage - We allow them to stack and then use the "net" result to determine what dice to keep.  If someone has two things granting Disadvantage, they need to find three ways to gain Advantage if they want to roll twice and take the best.  We've found this leads to far more interesting and dynamic combats as people look for ways to get that extra bump.  It could be tossing marbles on the floor so enemies fall prone, it could be maneauvering to flank, it could be sand in the eyes, it could be a feint, it could be a charge, it could be taking a hit from an enemy and dropping/feigning death and then shanking them when them move in to check.  Our combats have never devolved into "I hit it with my sword" because  we are liberal with the uses of Disadvantage and Advantage.

Outnumber - If you're outnumbered by at least 3 to 1, attacks against you gain Advantage.  Creatures capable of making more than one attack per round increase the number needed to outnumber by one/attack.  I'm debating making that into a size thing though, with each category above Medium increasing the number needed.



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6 months ago  ::  Dec 19, 2012 - 6:57AM #2
masqueofhastur
Date Joined: May 6, 2012
Posts: 435
I'd want to swap Opportunity Attacks to be on moving into a threatened square rather than moving out of it. This makes running away easier, and increases survivability without having to inflate hit points.

I'd then want Surprise to allow you to bypass that opportunity attack.

The game would get more ambush centred, and would have much less charging headlong into battle. Ranged weapons would get a noticeable boost, but in generally I think that would match fantasy source material and historical combat a lot better than the current rules do.

--- I like your Advantage/Disadvantage stacking handling. I was always wondering how that would be handled. I figure it could also get out of hand, but it does make the most sense, and I like how it encourages trying to figure out how to move the situation in your favour. 
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 19, 2012 - 7:02AM #3
fougerec
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 134

Dec 19, 2012 -- 6:57AM, masqueofhastur wrote:

I'd want to swap Opportunity Attacks to be on moving into a threatened square rather than moving out of it. This makes running away easier, and increases survivability without having to inflate hit points.

 




Moving into the square means you'll pretty much always suffer an OA which may have a detriment to melee combats.  If you're going to suffer an attack every time you close...that's pretty significant.  You could, however, allow some sort of skill roll or a feat to protect yourself from it or the Fighter can use their parry ability, which makes a lot of sense.

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6 months ago  ::  Dec 19, 2012 - 7:13AM #4
masqueofhastur
Date Joined: May 6, 2012
Posts: 435
Instead of having Disengage you could have Engage, which limits movement to 10 feet in the same fashion. This makes it impossible to attack someone who's fleeing without provoking the OA, while still being able to approach for combat. That also gives everyone an extra round to try to negotiate out of combat. Which would help with seeing intelligent enemies more as people than bundles of XP to be killed.

It'll limit the PCs as psychopaths trope if everyone moves into combat cautiously. Everyone has not wanting to get hurt as a commonality. It'll also make undead really different, and scary. They keep coming after you even if you're damaging them. They just don't care.  
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 19, 2012 - 7:26AM #5
AquaticSpaceChicken
Date Joined: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 145
No Attribute Bonuses To Hit-- I would love to try this out, along with No Attribute Bonus To Spell DC (just a straight up save). I don't know if I will, though, as D&D Next is built around the attributes and it might be a pain to remove. As it stands now though I can't see any character not trying to get a 20 in their primary stat as quickly as possible.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 19, 2012 - 8:53AM #6
fougerec
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 134

Dec 19, 2012 -- 7:26AM, AquaticSpaceChicken wrote:

No Attribute Bonuses To Hit-- I would love to try this out, along with No Attribute Bonus To Spell DC (just a straight up save). I don't know if I will, though, as D&D Next is built around the attributes and it might be a pain to remove. As it stands now though I can't see any character not trying to get a 20 in their primary stat as quickly as possible.




Have you tried this yet?  D&D has always been about the bonus from the Stat, not the Stat itself.  It would take a human with a 17 stat (15 +2) until level 12 to get to a 20 stat which I don't think is all that bad.  Anyone else would take level 16.  What I liked in 4E was that being proficient in a weapon conferred a bonus to hit (as opposed to a penalty for non-proficiency), though that +2 or +3 lost out once all the bonuses were added in.  If D&D Next has bounded accuracy then maybe a system where your Stat applies to damage but your actual training in the weapon is what provides the to-hit bonus.

Hmmm I think I may give that a whirl actually.  Use the Proficiency Bonus from 4E for the weapon, do away with stat bonuses to hit.

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6 months ago  ::  Dec 19, 2012 - 9:44AM #7
AquaticSpaceChicken
Date Joined: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 145

Dec 19, 2012 -- 8:53AM, fougerec wrote:

Have you tried this yet?  D&D has always been about the bonus from the Stat, not the Stat itself.  It would take a human with a 17 stat (15 +2) until level 12 to get to a 20 stat which I don't think is all that bad.  Anyone else would take level 16.  What I liked in 4E was that being proficient in a weapon conferred a bonus to hit (as opposed to a penalty for non-proficiency), though that +2 or +3 lost out once all the bonuses were added in.  If D&D Next has bounded accuracy then maybe a system where your Stat applies to damage but your actual training in the weapon is what provides the to-hit bonus.

Hmmm I think I may give that a whirl actually.  Use the Proficiency Bonus from 4E for the weapon, do away with stat bonuses to hit.




I've tried it in 2e using the modern day ability modifiers, and it works really well in 2e. We wanted a unified chart, but inflated to hit modifiers would have wreaked havok on the 2e system. We originally tried modifier halved for the to hit, but found it still put more emphasis on having a high stat than we wanted. 2e was also pre-DC system, so having a high stat didn't affect the targetted saving throw number.

You are right that some sort of proficiency bonus is needed to compensate for the loss of attribute modifiers to hit. 

I would probably leave monster to hit as is, though, because it seems like too much work to mess with it.

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6 months ago  ::  Dec 19, 2012 - 10:06AM #8
Saelorn
Date Joined: May 27, 2012
Posts: 3,114
House rules and modules can save this edition for me:

  • Advantage is +2.  Disadvantage is -2.  Everything stacks.
  • AC is based on class and level, rather than armor. 
    • Fighters gain +6, rogues/cleric gain +4, and wizards/monks gain +2. 
      • Everyone gets +1 at levels 6, 12, 18.
    • Shields are still +1 AC.
    • Armor gives bonus HP.
      • Light armor gives +1 HP per level.
      • Medium armor gives +1.5 HP per level.
      • Heavy armor gives +2 HP per level.
The metagame is not the game.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 19, 2012 - 10:12AM #9
AquaticSpaceChicken
Date Joined: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 145

Dec 19, 2012 -- 10:06AM, Saelorn wrote:


  • AC is based on class and level, rather than armor. 
    • Fighters gain +6, rogues/cleric gain +4, and wizards/monks gain +2. 
      • Everyone gets +1 at levels 6, 12, 18.
    • Shields are still +1 AC.
    • Armor gives bonus HP.
      • Light armor gives +1 HP per level.
      • Medium armor gives +1.5 HP per level.
      • Heavy armor gives +2 HP per level.




Armor as hit points sounds like an intriguing house rule. How and how often would the bonus hit points "reset"?

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6 months ago  ::  Dec 19, 2012 - 10:17AM #10
Saelorn
Date Joined: May 27, 2012
Posts: 3,114

Dec 19, 2012 -- 10:12AM, AquaticSpaceChicken wrote:

Armor as hit points sounds like an intriguing house rule. How and how often would the bonus hit points "reset"?


Personally, for ease of play, I would just treat them like any other HP (which works well enough, if you don't go through the minutiae of taking your armor off).

If I was a bit more comfortable with the damage math, I would use armor-HP to represent the fatigue aspect of damage, allowing those ones to re-set when you take a short rest.  I'm really not sure how meaningful that would be in the current damage scale, though.

The metagame is not the game.
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