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7 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 1:58AM
#1
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2009
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From the spell: Shocking Grasp Evocation Cantrip
Lightning wreathes your hand and delivers a brutal shock to the creature you touch.
Effect: Make a magic attack to touch a creature of your choice. On a hit, the target takes 1d10 lightning damage and can’t take reactions until its next turn.
When they say can't take reactions, does that mean that they can't do things like opportunity attacks until after their next turn is over? (What else would be considered a reaction?)
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7 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 2:24AM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 27, 2012
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Parry, protect, shield bash, arcane ward, and so on. Some monster have reactions too, like kobolds.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 2:40AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
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Doc: "How to Play" > page 11 > bottom > Right > Reactions 
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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7 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 4:09AM
#4
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2009
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Thank you! Exactly what I was looking for.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 4:10AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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It's kind of a swingy effect. Why not make it until the end of your next turn? That way it doesn't become good or bad based solely on initiative placement.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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7 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 4:47AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2005
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I think the point is it allows you to shock someone, then use your move to get away without provoking.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 5:04AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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I think the point is it allows you to shock someone, then use your move to get away without provoking.
Then why not just prevent them from taking reactions until the end of your current turn?
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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7 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 6:50AM
#8
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It's kind of a swingy effect. Why not make it until the end of your next turn? That way it doesn't become good or bad based solely on initiative placement.
Agreed. Timing issues like this plauged 4th. Even with errata there's still several powers that are more-or-less useless because of it.
Best to get into the habit of giving 1 full round to this kind of thing.
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 8:01AM
#9
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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I think the point is it allows you to shock someone, then use your move to get away without provoking.
Then why not just prevent them from taking reactions until the end of your current turn?
I suppose that the thinking may be that they want to avoid having one character's available actions be dependant on another character's turn-cycle because it adds complexity. It could be a source of confusion because instead of knowing "I can't react until it's my turn again" you have to know "I can act on my turn, but I can't react until it's that other guy's turn again," meaning you have to pay attention not only to your own turn but to the other guy's turn as well.
I'm not saying that's a good reason to do it this way... I think I tend to agree with you that it should be the caster's turn, so the effect just lasts one round every time. I'm just throwing it out there a possible explanation.
I guess the other possible explanation is that they figured, "well, if the target can still act on his turn, he should probably be able to react after that."
Edit: Derp I misread where you said "current" and thus my reply was actually to the suggestion that the effect last until the caster's NEXT turn. Reading fail on my part.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 8:05AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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I think the point is it allows you to shock someone, then use your move to get away without provoking.
Then why not just prevent them from taking reactions until the end of your current turn?
Because it also allows other people to benefit from it, potentially.
"End of your next turn" is a really clunky concept with odd results. I'm not sorry to see it being avoided.
I do agree that the initiative order thing is also clunky, and it should be start of your next turn not its next turn. Sure, this makes Shocking Grasp more powerful than its current form, but whatever the power you think it should be, it shouldn't randomly vary fight to fight based on nothing but initiative order.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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