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More fights about caster supremacy! no, I'm just kidding (mostly... I hope).

I'm curious as to people's feedback on an idea, and one that I may be tempted to try as a house-rule. 

PROBLEM

One argument about caster supremacy is that the martial characters are "boring" to play.  Because their non-combat options are very limitted (no utility spells or fewer skills), and their combat options amount to 'attack and attack again.' 

One counter to this argument is that fighters are only as boring as the player playing them, and that fighters can do super fun things like tip tables over, rip down window curtains, throw dirt in the enemy's eyes, jump from a balcony and swing on a chandelier etc. etc. etc.

But, such improvisation presents serious balance issues - as the choices are either underpowered or overpowered depending on DM ruling (example: throwing dirt in the eyes of your enemy has a 50% chance of blinding him for one round vs. an 80% chance of blinding him for the rest of the encounter).  If it's underpowered it won't be used again, if it's overpowered, then it's used nearly everytime, and the boring "attack, attack, attack" endless pattern becomes "dirt, attack, dirt, attack, dirt, attack" pattern. 

The fact is that it's hard to balance improvisation in combat against and with other attack choices.  So improvisation is often relegated to pure fluff, by necessity, and we are back to square one. 

[this doesn't even address the fact that it's unclear why martial characters are any better at, or more suited to, combat improvisation than other classes]

SUGGESTION:

I suggest that fighters get extra actions which can only be used for non attack actions. 

This might allow fights to continue to have some combat dominance without a simple "attack, attack, attack" forced path.  You don't have to balance tipping over tables, or throwing dirt, or pulling a rug out from under enemies, because you are doing these things IN ADDITION to attacks. 

This may be extra demanding on DMs, but could add a lot of flavor to martial encounters.  There could also be many things that fighters could do without needing a specific environment (drink a potion, grab an item, enter defensive mode).

I think this kind of option could make the fighter's presence on the battlefield more significant, do it in a thematically interesting way, and do it withough just making the fighter the basic attack machine. 

Thoughts?

I agree with your concerns, and yes, one of the things the fighter needs most is a way to both do damage and do other neat stunts.

While an extra action is a good choice. Now that they use martial damage die, I almost think it might be better to leverage that scaling, and just allow the fighter to add their martial damage die to any improvised stunt that they can think of. It's nice because it let's fighters be deadly even without their weapon, and builds in a way to determine how much damage those improvised maneuvers do.

For instance, how much damage is done by pulling the rug to trip some goblins, well if you're successful on the Str vs. Dex attack, you do martial damage die damage. When you swing on a chandelier into a foe, you do martial damage die damage if successful. Push the goblin down the stairs, martial damage die if successful...

It makes for a fast easy way to determine how damaging a stunt is, and you could even have a list of effects with relative cost in martial damage die. For instance blinding your foe for one round costs a martial damage die or you can spend a die to push them back that die's result in feet.

It seems to me like maneuvers might just be needlessly complicating this in an effort to codify pretty much the same thing. But if if you kept maneuvers as they are, you could just allow the classes with martial damage dice to use them improvised maneuvers such as pulling the rug or what not, and you  have an equally simple way of building level appropriate effects and damage for improvised stunts and maneuvers.

*Edited for spelling and grammer.*

Dec 18, 2012 -- 5:44PM, penandpaper2 wrote:

I suggest they not try to balance the classes so much.  And if they insist on balancing them, make the wizards weak as hell the first 6 levels.  Make the fighters much stronger than them.  Then have the roles reversed in the later levels.  This way it forces people to play as a group, not the "look at me and how great I am show."

I mean did you see the thread started on the new packet?  Apparently, every class is ruined or boring or needs to do everything every other class does plus more.  All skills and feats are pointless, overpowered, or underpowered.  And best of all, the (direct quote here) "magic items are like homework."  



 

I think relative class balance is important for the game (as in attracting and keeping players).  It is very frustrating as a DM to have player balance imbalance.  It makes it difficult to understand challenge difficulty and to keep the players having fun at the table. 

You don't want some players feeling bored and frustrated for 6 levels (especially because if that's the case the game won't last that long as people quit) - and the DM will struggle to create stories that keep people engaged even where there is huge imbalance.

Also, I can't imagine the nightmare of balancing challenge difficulty without some sembelance of character balance.  What's a challenging encounter for 5 10th level characters suddenly depends on class makeup, and that class makeup effect changes for each and every level. 
D&D Next can't be a game that's only playable by DMs with years and years of experience. 

I feel to much emphasis is put on class and feats and skills when more should be on abilities and what can be accomplished with them. Rouges taunt? Try Charisma taunt, and rouges get bonus do charisma. Fighters cleave? Strength cleaves and fighters get XD to strength maneuvers. Clerics aid? Wisdom can aid and clerics get bonus to wisdom maneuvers.

Also listing examples of direct ability challenges can accomplish.  CHA v INT (bluff). STR v WIS (intimidate). Simplified examples but instead of adding feats that have to be selected, add examples with possible penalties to accomplish so anyone can attempt but certain class can excel at them.