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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 4:03PM
#1
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2009
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I don't know what I am missing, but I can't seem to figure out exactly what the new (or old) playtest packets are talking about here: Note Hit Dice (HD).
A character who rests can use Hit Dice to recover hit points. A character gets one Hit Die per level.
The die’s type is determined by class (and sometimes other features).
Record the number and type of Hit Dice.
I am used to 4e (it that helps with any background). Basically, my questions are:
Are Hit Dice like surges? You roll and get a certain number you can use per day?
Can you use as many HD as you want during a rest?
Do you just roll your hit dice after a rest and regain the number of HP that came up on the dice?
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 4:07PM
#2
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HD are like surges. You spend (roll) them durring a short rest to heal (with a med kit) to heal (+con mod).
They scale by giving you more to spend, and not really by % of hit points.
guides
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my builds
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 4:08PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Nov 21, 2009
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Your number of Hit Die are like your number of surges per day. When something lets you spend a hit die (such as using a healing kit during a rest) you roll the die and gain that many hit points (instead of a pre-determined number). Once the hit die is expended, it does not refresh until a long rest (like 4e surges).
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 4:15PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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I am used to 4e (it that helps with any background). Basically, my questions are:
Are Hit Dice like surges?
Yes and no. They're like surges in that they're a 'natural healing' mechanic that you use after a short rest (though IIRC it's not called that) and refresh daily. They are different from surges in that they're not proportional. Each HD is one die of healing. At 1st level or 30th level a healing surge is 1/4 your hps, but you always have the same number of them (unless your CON increases enough); a HD is always just 1 die, but you get one per level.
It's roughly equivalent to everyone having 4 rather un-dependable surges...
You roll and get a certain number you can use per day?
Can you use as many HD as you want during a rest?
You can use as many as you have, which is one per level.
Do you just roll your hit dice after a rest and regain the number of HP that came up on the dice?
Yes, but they're a daily resource, so if you roll them all after a rest, you have none left until you take an extended rest or whatever they call a good night's sleep in the packet.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 4:19PM
#5
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They are different from surges in that they're not proportional.
They mostly are.
You get about 80% of your max HP in HD. It more or less stays that way. Though high Con people will get more, low Con people will get less.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 4:32PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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They are different from surges in that they're not proportional.
They mostly are.
You get about 80% of your max HP in HD. It more or less stays that way. Though high Con people will get more, low Con people will get less.
Only if you look at the self-healing function of HS - which is actually a minor one, contrary to general belief, since self-healing is quite inefficient in 4E so players tend to avoid it if they can.
HS are a normalised measure of the PCs health. As suche they regulate the pacing of the game: when you are low on HS that means it's time to stop and rest (since the vast majority of healing in 4E requires spending HS).
They are quite different concepts.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 6:45PM
#7
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2009
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a HD is always just 1 die, but you get one per level.
It's roughly equivalent to everyone having 4 rather un-dependable surges...
So after a fight, I can roll my HD to heal for free? But only once a day? On a different note, if I have a Healer's Kit, I basically get 20 rolls of my Hit Die?
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 6:49PM
#8
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a HD is always just 1 die, but you get one per level.
It's roughly equivalent to everyone having 4 rather un-dependable surges...
So after a fight, I can roll my HD to heal for free? But only once a day?
On a different note, if I have a Healer's Kit, I basically get 20 rolls of my Hit Die?
Not quite for free because you have to expend a use from your healer's kit. Otherwise, yes, for free. Also, you can use your HDs more than once a day, but it's a daily pool you draw from. If you use two HDs to heal after your first fight (Having at least 2 HDs requires that you be at least 2nd level), then you don't have access to those two HDs again until you take a long rest. However, if you had any HDs remaining after spending those first two (for example, you were level 3 and had 1 HD left), you could use your remaining HDs later in that same day.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 7:03PM
#9
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2009
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Thanks for the input guys. That cleared up things very well.
Just another thought though. With the Healer's Kit, I can heal 10 allies for 25cp (or 2.5 silver)? Seems like nearly free healing and unlimited surges. I rest, get up and walk around, and rest again ...
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 7:08PM
#10
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Thanks for the input guys. That cleared up things very well.
Just another thought though. With the Healer's Kit, I can heal 10 allies for 25cp (or 2.5 silver)? Seems like nearly free healing and unlimited surges. I rest, get up and walk around, and rest again ...
Unlimited surges if you have unlimited time. Your HDs per day are equal to your level. That's roughly equivalent to having 2-4 of 4e's surges per day (assuming no Con bonus).
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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