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5 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 9:18AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2011
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Ok, this mechanic hasn't been FULLY clarified to me, never in the story of roleplaying games... And that's maybe because I'm not very intuitive :/ Let's say I hide a key on a bookshelf, inside a book, and the Insight Throw requires a DC 25 to find it. My player tells me he wants to check on the Bookshelf, and rolls the die, and the result with his modifier is 20. Ok, good, he didn't find it... But what if he says... "I want to try it again!"? Ok, I re-roll, he gets 23, and fails. And then he says "Ok, let's try once more!"... and he rolls 22... I ask because this happened last night and they were stuck for about an hour looking dor the dang key, so much they got bored. They made like... 10 Die rolls per bookshelf, and they had the worst luck on the world. And I mean, I even tought about changing the key's hidespot but then, what's the point of hiding stuff? -.- What should I do? 
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5 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 9:26AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2012
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If the people take a good amount of time to search an area, you can say they find the key. No roll.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 9:35AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2012
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If the characters have unlimited time to search, why not treat the check as a "20"? Add modifiers to the 20 roll and see if it beats the DC.
If the characters have a few minutes to look around, why not make it a "Take 10" roll.
I'm not too fond of trying the same skill over and again, or having all the characters try it.
I usually allow one roll, you're hard pressed and need to move on? Make a check.
You have a few minutes to look around? Take 10.
You have an hour or unlimited time? Take 20.
You want to help another character? The most skilled character rolls, the others can "help another" to give him/her +2.
Just my 2cp
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5 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 10:25AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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Consider that maybe there is no point in hiding stuff.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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5 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 10:30AM
#5
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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First, if finding the key is the only way to proceed then you hid the key too well. In the future, in this type of scenario make finding the key to unlock the door a path that bypasses potential threats but if they do not find it there is always a "more dangerous" path they can follow. Or decrease the difficulty so that finding the key is easier
Second, I agree with Yokel and SanClown - taking 10 or 20 is what speeds up the "re-trying" method.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 10:58AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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Second, I agree with Yokel and SanClown - taking 10 or 20 is what speeds up the "re-trying" method.
I agree.
If there's no time pressure, then they find it. If there is time pressure, then let them take the risk and reroll.
In general, don't roll unless failure would be interesting, such as when something is attempted in combat, or when failure looks like success but with a twist.
Put another way:
Before you call for a roll, visualize two things:
1. Success.
2. Failure.
If either one of those seems uninteresting, don't call for a roll.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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5 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 3:38PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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DMG p.41: "Unless the characters are under a time constraint, assume that they’re going to roll a 20 eventually, and use the best possible Perception check result for the party. (Effectively, this result equals the best passive Perception check +10.) Assume the characters spend a minute or two searching, and move on to tell them what they find."
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5 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 6:40PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2011
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Ok, let's put an example. Let's say they just killed all the demon maids and butlers on the Main Hall,and no other threats are arround, so they have all the time in the world to search for the Three Coins they need to complete a Puzzle. I hid a coin inside an urn, another one between the logs of the chimney, and the last one is on the corpse of a Demon Butler. Should I tell them they found the 3 coins? Or wait till' they tell me where to look and then give them the coins without a roll?
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5 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 9:03PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2011
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Instead of tellign them they've found three coins right away because they can take their sweet time, you could encourage them to explore the room a bit by listing some specific objects. "In this room, you see the corpses of your slain foes. It also contains a bizarre-looking painting, a fireplace, a suit of armor, an urn underneath a portrait and a finely-crafted carpet." These cues would prompt your players to search these elements, getting them to interact with the environment a bit. The coin is found by simply inspecting the element; no roll required. After a while of doing this, they might start looking for stuff on their own, without any cues. However, to be honest, I haven't really used this method much, so I can't say how effective this is.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 19, 2012 - 5:12AM
#10
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Consider that maybe there is no point in hiding stuff.
I tend to agree with Centauri here, unless there is a specific reason for something to be hidden, that it is in effect part of the encounter, there's no point other than to say "After a few minutes searching you find a key hidden in a book."
Now, there are games which reward players for searching every nook and cranny, but those tend to be extra items and treasure, not "can't go into the next room without this item" items.
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