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So this packet got me thinking on my previous attempt at unifiying some mechanics and essentially trying to find a balance between the martial, magical, and mixed class archetypes. That got me thinking about the disparity between at-will maneuvers and daily spell slots. What if martial maneuvers were handled using "spell" slots, similar to clerics/wizards? Before anyone gets apoplexy, please here this crazy thought out. Both maneuvers and spells are physically draining, and the body can only take so much before only basic actions can be used (basic attacks/cantrips).

Some people disliked 4e's martial "daily" powers because they felt too "magical", and too scarce. But not everyone likes "encounter" powers either, especially on martial classes. So what if WotC developed "leveled" maneuvers, where each maneuver level allowed for greater effects? With this model, fighters have a self-managed "daily" resource for maneuvers, but lots to pick from.

Edit: based on some new ideas going around, I've revised the chart a bit:

		Power Slots
Level	Features	1	2	3	4	5
1	See below	1
2	Talent	2
3	Skill Training	2	1
4	Talent, Ability increase (+1 to 2 ability scores)	2	2
5	Skill Training	2	2	1
6	Talent	2	2	2
7	Skill Training	2	2	2	1
8	Talent, Ability increase (+1 to 2 ability scores)	2	2	2	2
9	Skill Training	2	2	2	2	1
10	Talent	2	2	2	2	2

Brief summary of overall mechanics:

• Ability scores will not affect bounded accuracy. This is strictly the pervue of training. Individual maneuver and spells will include any impact of the results based on ability score/modifier.
• Every character begins with 4 skill trainings, with another 2 trainings that must be chosen between Martial Combat, Magical Combat, or another skill.
• Training in Martial Combat or Magical Combat will automatically grant a free maneuver or spell.
• Decide at character creation if the slot resource management will be encounter or daily. The daily option will increase the number of slots available by 1 (so 2 at 1st, 3 at 2nd, then 3/2, ending at 3/3/3/3/3 at level 10). Note: For the truly adventuresome, I could see setting each slot level individually between encounter or daily, but the tracking becomes more troublesome.
• Each maneuver or spell can have an at-will, encounter,  and/or daily version. In addition, some may have a minimum slot level. A higher level slot can be used to perform a lower slotted maneuver or spell. In addition each maneuver will decide how ability scores affect it. For example, Deadly Strike (at-will) in this instance might be "add StrMod or DexMod". Then encounter version might be use [(roll - AC)/2] * slot level, and the daily might be [roll - AC]. I'll need help finding a reasonably balanced formula.
• Talents will effectively be a list of class features, with some having prerequisites (minimum level or other talents). Feats are mostly gone, but some might show up as talents.
• The basic formula becomes 1d20 + [training modifier] >= DC is a success.

Level	Training	Modifier
0	Untrained	-
1	Novice	1d4
2	Adept	1d6
3	Expert	1d8
4	Master	1d10
5	Grand Master	2d6

I could see a combination of XD and stances. Defensive stance allows XD to protect and parry, Leaping Tiger stance allows whirlwind and cleave.

Do not like daily resources for martial abilities.

Spell points is the way to go. 4e psionics mechanics best represents my imagination of how magic works.   

Dec 18, 2012 -- 8:12PM, Seerow wrote:

A variant I proposed a few months ago was to let the Fighter double his dice for one round, but lose one die until his next short rest, or triple his dice for one round, but losing one die until his next extended rest.

Yes I think I called it straining / heroic exertion...   though mostly I prefer the short rest recovered to the extended rest based one.
Aside from working out the exact details, the idea seems to rock... and was bounced by a number of us in slightly different forms.

Dec 18, 2012 -- 8:12PM, Seerow wrote:

In this way you could have encounter/daily abilities simply by making them require more dice than the Fighter has at the level they're appropriate for. A first level daily ability would cost 3 dice. By the time you hit level 3, that ability can be used on a per encounter basis, by level 5 it's at will. All you need then is to add more maneuvers (both available and known), and possibly have some of them scale at a rate closer to the Monks maneuvers (For example the one that lets you throw someone where 1 die = 10ft, 2 dice = 30ft, 3 dice = 60ft), so a high level Fighter using his dice as a daily expenditure can accomplish truly godlike tasks.

Yes we need to be pulling down the pillars of heaven... when the mage is making reality his ******.

Dec 18, 2012 -- 8:12PM, Seerow wrote:

You could then make Combat Surge rather than doubling the value of any rolled dice refresh a die that had been burned in that way. 

"I could care less....", "but I would have to really really work at it..."  

I insert that mentally and it all works fine, so I dont have to feel english professor snark guilt.

Also heroic luck and narrative awesome is a perfectly reasonable reason for dailies and encounter powers.

When I watch a movie the lead hero doesnt attempt the huge from the floor haymaker round after round after round he waits till the opening happens and because its a story I dont want it to be just a fluke so he whacks a bunch of minions when its the wrong time and is a resounding failure when he needs it ... I will let the player decide when he gets to do awesome... it would be selfish otherwise.

Plus turn about is fair play, after all the most potent of magics are only supposed to be workable near ley lines, with the right temporal, and astrological confluences and with blood sacrefice and be truly difficult (prone to failure .. like normal human endeavor). Not boom it just works with a moment or two of finger wiggling.

Dec 18, 2012 -- 9:03PM, hunterian7 wrote:

I could really care less if grognards dislike daily or encounter martial powers.

In another thread, you mentioned that it would have been nice to have gotten a PH4 and DMG3.  (Personally, I can't imagine what there was to put in a PH4, certainly nothing that came out in Essentials or latter was worthy of such, but an Epic-focused DMG 3 would've been awesome).   Hatred of martial dailies (and encounters) or 'dissociated mechanics,' was one of the chief rallying points for the campaign of hate and mis-information euphamistically called the 'edition war,' and, 5e does completely purge said from the game.  So you should (or should have, I suppose), cared, because said hatred took said PH4 and DMG3 away from you.