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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 11:56AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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since your abilities don't increase with level (bound accuracy)
False. Not only do they increase with level, bounded accuracy does nothing to prevent it. So false on two counts.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 12:24PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2008
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I actually really, really dislike the current Monk.
I feel like it gets way too few maneuvers, way too few ki abilities, and too many silly supernatural abilities. Why can monks teleport? Why can they turn ethereal? What do those abilities have to do with being good at martial arts? Last time I checked, neither Jackie Chan nor any character he's ever played has been able to teleport or turn ethereal just because they're good at martial arts.
I'd be fine with the telportation and etherealness if they were just made optional Monk ki abilities. Same thing with Quivering Palm. I get that these abilities are iconic for the Monk, but they don't fit in with my image of what I want my monk to be able to do. I want a supernatural martial artist, who while his ki allows him to do things with his martial arts that a mundane martial artist can't do, he's still limited to doing things that a human body can do. Some elemental attacks and hadoken type abilities aren't too bad, but teleporting and etherealness are too much. Those aren't physical feats enhanced by ki...those are just flat out magical powers, and that's not what I want.
I think the monk needs to loose most of the built in abilities. Drop Tongue of Sun and Moon and Perfect Self. Increase the number of maneuvers and ki abilities a monk gets.Include Quivering Palm, Abundant Step, and Empty Body as optional ki abilities instead of making them something every Monk gets. Truth be told, I'd be fine with the Monk also loosing most of its immunities. I don't think it's very fair nor interesting that the monk gets a bunch of immunities and none of the other classes get anything even remotely similar.
Give me a supernatural martial artist, not a guy who becomes magical because he's good at punching people.
D&D Experience Level: Relatively new
First Edition: 4th
Known Editions: 4th, 3.5
---
Magic Experience Level: Fairly skilled
First Expansion: 7th Edition
Play Style: Very Casual
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 12:28PM
#23
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Actually, I think the Monk's captsone is a lot less powerful than it looks. By level 20, any given monk is going to at or near the cap in the stats Monks need most. The capstone will mostly be filling in his tertiary and dump stats. That's cool and all, but it doesn't make him a juggernaut.
Technically, since your abilities don't increase with level (bound accuracy), what this does is make the Monk amazing at EVERYTHING for a capstone. I'd like something a little more powerful, actually. >_>
Every Character gets to raise ability scores at specific levels as shown in the level chart on page 5 of the "how to create a character" packet. Also "Bounded Accuracy" as described by the devs has nothing to do with increasing ability scores, but there are several great threads where this is explained.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 12:36PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2009
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Also, has anyone else noticed how incredibly useless quivering palm is? Aside from the fact that failing three consecutive saves has this wierd tipping point between "actually really easy because the save DC is next to impossible" and "incredibly unlikely because I've actually got a good CON score," with very little ground imbetween, there's the simple problem that MOST NEXT FIGHTS ARE OVER IN LESS THAN 3 ROUNDS. Yay, if the fighter hadn't cut off its head, my quivering palm would have destroyed it! I feel useful! I haven't run the math on every monster yet, but just eyeballing HP/damage ratios it's looking like short combats are here to stay, and that makes SoSoSoD pretty useless.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 1:23PM
#25
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Also, has anyone else noticed how incredibly useless quivering palm is? Aside from the fact that failing three consecutive saves has this wierd tipping point between "actually really easy because the save DC is next to impossible" and "incredibly unlikely because I've actually got a good CON score," with very little ground imbetween, there's the simple problem that MOST NEXT FIGHTS ARE OVER IN LESS THAN 3 ROUNDS. Yay, if the fighter hadn't cut off its head, my quivering palm would have destroyed it! I feel useful! I haven't run the math on every monster yet, but just eyeballing HP/damage ratios it's looking like short combats are here to stay, and that makes SoSoSoD pretty useless.
1) Punch the dragon.
2) Run away.
3) ???
4) Profit.
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 1:28PM
#26
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I actually really, really dislike the current Monk.
I feel like it gets way too few maneuvers, way too few ki abilities, and too many silly supernatural abilities. Why can monks teleport? Why can they turn ethereal? What do those abilities have to do with being good at martial arts? Last time I checked, neither Jackie Chan nor any character he's ever played has been able to teleport or turn ethereal just because they're good at martial arts.
I'd be fine with the telportation and etherealness if they were just made optional Monk ki abilities. Same thing with Quivering Palm. I get that these abilities are iconic for the Monk, but they don't fit in with my image of what I want my monk to be able to do. I want a supernatural martial artist, who while his ki allows him to do things with his martial arts that a mundane martial artist can't do, he's still limited to doing things that a human body can do. Some elemental attacks and hadoken type abilities aren't too bad, but teleporting and etherealness are too much. Those aren't physical feats enhanced by ki...those are just flat out magical powers, and that's not what I want.
I think the monk needs to loose most of the built in abilities. Drop Tongue of Sun and Moon and Perfect Self. Increase the number of maneuvers and ki abilities a monk gets.Include Quivering Palm, Abundant Step, and Empty Body as optional ki abilities instead of making them something every Monk gets. Truth be told, I'd be fine with the Monk also loosing most of its immunities. I don't think it's very fair nor interesting that the monk gets a bunch of immunities and none of the other classes get anything even remotely similar.
Give me a supernatural martial artist, not a guy who becomes magical because he's good at punching people.
I think some of those capstone features can and should stay, but teleportation and etherealness are too much.
Also, apparently they have those high-end features filled in for the Monk because they knew them already, while Mearls says they're still tinkering around with high-end features for the Fighter and Rogue. >_>
I hope that's the case. Perfect Body is great, and very thematic for the Monk. Fighters and Rogues need something equivalent, though.
A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 1:29PM
#27
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Abundant Step is nice too as an at-will teleport, so is the Etherealness of Empty Body... 
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 3:04PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2009
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Though i'd still rather see the monk get some of these things a bit more gradually.
Like...
12: All your ability scores are 12.
14: All your ability scores are 14.
16: all your ability scores are 16.
18: all your ability scores are 18.
20: all your ability scores are 20.
*(or higher.)
Yes, this is how I'd like to see this done, as a gradual achievment of physical perfection/enlightenment. Still, I would rather this be optional... some Monks would not have Perfect Self, maybe some would have either a physical or mental version, and some would have the whole shebang.
Monk has no alignment restriction anymore, only alignment suggestion... No  ?
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 4:01PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Jun 28, 2006
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Here's my thoughts so far on the Monk: * The alignment restriction is gone. * I'm glad they added the monastic traditions. * I think Purity of Body, Clear Mind and Diamond Body are overpowered. Granting advantage on saves against those conditions would be preferable to granting blanket immunity, IMO. * I don't like Abundant Step or Quivering Palm. I think they should be Ki abilities instead. At-will teleportation is ridiculous. Not even wizards get that. * Tongue of the Sun and Moon and Timeless Body just don't make any sense for Monks to have, IMO. What about a Monk's training makes him a magical super linguist? And the idea that monks can become immune to aging is just odd. There are plenty of examples of very old monks. I can see them not suffering aging penalties to their physical ability scores, but becoming immune to aging and not needing to eat or drink is a bit over the top. * Empty Body should be an optional Ki ability, not something all Monks get. * Perfect Self is just stupidly overpowered. Overall, I'm disappointed with this version of the Monk, though I am glad they relented on the alignment restriction. It's obvious that there was alot of copy/pasting from 3rd edition going on here, except then someone must have thought "I can make Perfect Self even better!"
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6 months ago ::
Dec 18, 2012 - 4:54PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Nov 12, 2012
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I have some mixed feelings about the current incarnation of the monk. I feel sort of neutral toward the elimination of alignment restrictions. If it was me, I would have switched it to non-chaotic, but *shrugs*. The biggest thing for me, though, is some of their new abilities. I really don't like some of the over-the-top abilities or crazy elemental stuff in the monk. I know that they are making the game, so they can determine what ki is and how it manifests, but I am not a big fan of elemental damage in the monk(at least in core, force seems acceptable though). The "all 20's" ability seems nuts and I agree they can do better.
Here's a thought: What would you suggest adding to the monk's arsenal? Here's a thought for an ability that I had...
(insert name of ability here/haven't decided): If damage, an attack, or any power would kill the monk, they may expend one usage of ki. The monk uses his/her mental discipline to continue to survive or fight despite being mortally wounded. There would be a check each turn to maintain the ability, but this can only be done for 2+1 round every 4 levels. Failure to maintain the ability results in death. The DC to maintain the effect will be increased by 2 for every ten damage done beyond what would otherwise be fatal. 50 damage or more beyond what would kill the monk will kill them regardless.
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