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6 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 8:23PM
#81
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The only thing it lost that I noticed is ability score boosting, and creating magic items. In its place it gives you "Gain immunity to any single attack type for you and all allies for 8 hours" which is really ridiculous.
Actually, you can still make magic items(second bullet point).
Not sure how I missed that. So only thing we lose out on is ability score boosting, which with the cap of 20 is hardly surprising.
Just checked Time Stop. It apparently got a buff as well. 1d4+1 rounds up to 10 rounds. I'm beginning to see a pattern here.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 8:24PM
#82
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2004
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The fighter and the rogue look very interesting to me. They have a lot of interesting options.
I'm having a really hard time seeing how the fighter has more "interesting options" than his 3e counterpart.
Feedback Disclaimer
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Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us.
No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC).
(And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft)A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)My 4e Projects
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6 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 8:24PM
#83
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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In addition to that I will have a ton of survivability and a +20 to damage. That is every bit as good as being able to cast a total of 19 spells per day.
It's really not.
No, it really is. If you like I can show you how one use of a surge plus a fighter’s other features equals an action that is every bit as potent as what the 6-9th level spells do with a single cast...
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6 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 8:26PM
#84
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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The fighter and the rogue look very interesting to me. They have a lot of interesting options.
I'm having a really hard time seeing how the fighter has more "interesting options" than his 3e counterpart.
Then you are not counting up the various permutations of all the options you get when you know 5 maneuvers and can mix and match their effects with 6 ED, and 4/day being able to take two actions a turn (and maximize all your ED)...
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6 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 8:29PM
#85
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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Then you are not counting up the various permutations of all the options you get when you know 5 maneuvers and can mix and match their effects with 6 ED, and 4/day being able to take two actions a turn
Wow, 5 manuveurs and "hit it" twice 4 times a day? Wow, let me go brag to the Wizard, that'll show him. As soon as I can find him, what with him flying around invisible, and hopefully he didn't use Time Stop to stuff an angry weasel down my pants this time, or use Wish to tun my sword into wood. Boy was that an embarassing fight.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 8:29PM
#86
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2004
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The fighter and the rogue look very interesting to me. They have a lot of interesting options.
I'm having a really hard time seeing how the fighter has more "interesting options" than his 3e counterpart.
Then you are not counting up the various permutations of all the options you get when you know 5 maneuvers and can mix and match their effects with 6 ED, and 4/day being able to take two actions a turn (and maximize all your ED)...
... is it similar to the permutations of having twice as many "maneuvers" with the ability to mix and match their effects with 20 BaB, (potentially) 4 attacks each round, and 3 additional general feats on top of it all?
Feedback Disclaimer
Show
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us.
No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC).
(And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft)A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)My 4e Projects
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6 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 8:29PM
#87
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Heh. The table for Greater Teleprt is shifted off and lks as if you can't teleport on target.  Anyway, no extra attack for fighers or am I blind? Errr... more blind?
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
Constitution Based Class for Next!
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6 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 8:30PM
#88
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The fighter and the rogue look very interesting to me. They have a lot of interesting options.
I'm having a really hard time seeing how the fighter has more "interesting options" than his 3e counterpart.
Then you are not counting up the various permutations of all the options you get when you know 5 maneuvers and can mix and match their effects with 6 ED, and 4/day being able to take two actions a turn (and maximize all your ED)...
Whereas in 3.5 you had the Fighter able to take 4+ attacks every turn, had 11 bonus feats that he was able to combine and use all at once at will, and was still considered both the weakest and most boring class in the game. WotC introduced resource management to the Fighter, but not the options and capability that should have accompanied that. We have in our hands a Fighter class that is in fact worse in every conceivable way than his 3.5 counterpart.
Yes, the Wizard got brought down from 3.5 as well, mostly in terms of how many spells per day he can use. All of his really powerful spells are still there, and so far each one I've checked is equivalent to or buffed in relation to the same spell in 3.5. At will vs daily limitation does not justify a disparity in power as wide as what we are seeing.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 8:31PM
#89
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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The only thing it lost that I noticed is ability score boosting, and creating magic items. In its place it gives you "Gain immunity to any single attack type for you and all allies for 8 hours" which is really ridiculous.
Actually, you can still make magic items(second bullet point).
Not sure how I missed that. So only thing we lose out on is ability score boosting, which with the cap of 20 is hardly surprising.
Just checked Time Stop. It apparently got a buff as well. 1d4+1 rounds up to 10 rounds. I'm beginning to see a pattern here.
The thing that made time stop good was the ability to set up combos that didn't directly deal damage to or affect a creature when any given spell in the combo was cast, but that would result in the death of a foe as soon as the spell ended. Please, let me know, how can such a combo be achieved in D&DN? Tell me what spells you would cast in what order during your time stop to achieve the same effect. Likewise, the thing that made Wish’s ability to replicate other spells so good was the memorization rules. Read the memorization rules for this packet again. Then please tell me, what makes it smarter to cast Wish than just using a lower level spell slot.
What I am seeing is a game that managed to capture the spirit of D&D spellcasting, but has kept out the contextual problems that broke 3e. Except for wish's ability to create magic items. I can't say I really like that... I think that should be subject to DM approval.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 8:34PM
#90
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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Then you are not counting up the various permutations of all the options you get when you know 5 maneuvers and can mix and match their effects with 6 ED, and 4/day being able to take two actions a turn
Wow, 5 manuveurs and "hit it" twice 4 times a day? Wow, let me go brag to the Wizard, that'll show him. As soon as I can find him, what with him flying around invisible, and hopefully he didn't use Time Stop to stuff an angry weasel down my pants this time, or use Wish to tun my sword into wood. Boy was that an embarassing fight.
None of what you just suggested a wizard can do can actually be done. I will tell you what, why don't you tell me what spells you would cast during a time stop to beat my fighter, ok?
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