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5 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 8:53PM
#101
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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None of what you just suggested a wizard can do can actually be done. I will tell you what, why don't you tell me what spells you would cast during a time stop to beat my fighter, ok?
I'd probably get to a safe distance, buff myself with Mage Armor and Shield, cast Stinking Cloud right above you(since it's not affecting you yet, Time Stop is still in effect), then use Telekinesis(Time Stop ends here) to lift you straight up into the Stinking Cloud. Until I move you somewhere where your feet touch the ground, then lift you up about 50 feet(over two rounds, as long as you aren't on a surface that can support you, I automatically continue holding you), then as my action cast Web on the ground below you, which breaks my Telekinesis, sending you plummeting 50 feet straight down onto the Web where you're restrained if you fail a Dex save stuck in the Stinking Cloud. If somehow you're still alive after all of this, I'll backtrack in the opposite direction pelting you with my other high level damage spells until you drop.
Or I Time Stop, Web under you, Trap the Soul to stick you in a gem, then throw you in the nearest volcano.
Or if you go first and don't kill me, I Time Stop, put down a sign that says "Cya Later" and use Greater Teleport to go to the other side of the continent.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 8:58PM
#102
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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No. It is much better. Because, you couldn't really use those 4 attacks each round to do anything other than basic attack. You can use your 6d6 ED to do stuff other than make basic attacks. Some of what you can do can result in very potent effects given the right situations. And, with your surge, you don't ever find yourself making attacks that are never going to hit except with a natural 20. You get to use your maximum attack bonus with both attacks, and you get to add a +20 bonus to damage to both attacks. Your DPR with one use of a surge will result in a far more potent effect than, say, power word kill.
+20 bonus to damage applies once per turn... YAY! I can hit you for 1d8+5+(whatever magic item bonus to damage) + 6d6 + 20 on hit one!.... then 1d8+5+(whatever magic bonus to damage) on hit two with my fighter surge.
Sorry, you are right. You can only use the damage bonus once per turn. I will need to run numbers on this, but as long as your DPR is well over 50 I don't see a problem. Somehow, I think it will be well over 50.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 8:59PM
#103
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Don't forget this is a PLAY-test guys... spirited discussion of numbers and mechanics is great, but getting a feel for how the classes work at higher levels while actually playing the game is the point.
If someone is playing a fighter and having fun, and doesn't feel overshadowed by the wizard at higher levels, than that's what matters. Give it a spin and come back in a few days and let us know your thoughts from the boots on the ground perspective...
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5 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 9:00PM
#104
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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Go look at the maneuvers currently in the game. Look at them real hard and tell me which ones are meaningfully better than anything an optimized fighter could do in 3.5. Because right now? Every one of them is extremely boring, many of them are direct counterparts to old feats that are much weaker.
And with the 4 attacks every turn, while two of them were basically a waste (unless optimizing for a very high AB), the other two were always good. And both of those attacks had access to every feat at the Fighter's disposal, rather than having to ration which feats he applied where.
Like I said, we will have to agree to disagree. Unless you can show you objectively, numerically, mathematically how a fighter is sub-par right now, I like what I am seeing. If you can, I will quickly switch my tune.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 9:00PM
#105
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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This is all fun to read but question: how does levels 1-10 work out on the balance front? 11-20 in D&DN is a new to all, but how do the levels they should of had some guidance on stack up?
Level 1-10 looks very good IMHO.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 9:01PM
#106
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Go look at the maneuvers currently in the game. Look at them real hard and tell me which ones are meaningfully better than anything an optimized fighter could do in 3.5. Because right now? Every one of them is extremely boring, many of them are direct counterparts to old feats that are much weaker.
And with the 4 attacks every turn, while two of them were basically a waste (unless optimizing for a very high AB), the other two were always good. And both of those attacks had access to every feat at the Fighter's disposal, rather than having to ration which feats he applied where.
Like I said, we will have to agree to disagree. Unless you can show you objectively, numerically, mathematically how a fighter is sub-par right now, I like what I am seeing. If you can, I will quickly switch my tune.
I've already said this isn't about numbers. Why you try to turn it back to "prove it is mathematically inferior" when I've already said my complaint has nothing to do with that I have no idea.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 9:02PM
#107
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Don't forget this is a PLAY-test guys... spirited discussion of numbers and mechanics is great, but getting a feel for how the classes work at higher levels while actually playing the game is the point.
If someone is playing a fighter and having fun, and doesn't feel overshadowed by the wizard at higher levels, than that's what matters. Give it a spin and come back in a few days and let us know your thoughts from the boots on the ground perspective...
One look at even reading the class, maneuvers, and spells section of this packet will instantly get anyone in my gaming group to refuse to play.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 9:02PM
#108
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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Go look at the maneuvers currently in the game. Look at them real hard and tell me which ones are meaningfully better than anything an optimized fighter could do in 3.5. Because right now? Every one of them is extremely boring, many of them are direct counterparts to old feats that are much weaker.
And with the 4 attacks every turn, while two of them were basically a waste (unless optimizing for a very high AB), the other two were always good. And both of those attacks had access to every feat at the Fighter's disposal, rather than having to ration which feats he applied where.
Like I said, we will have to agree to disagree. Unless you can show you objectively, numerically, mathematically how a fighter is sub-par right now, I like what I am seeing. If you can, I will quickly switch my tune.
I've already said this isn't about numbers. Why you try to turn it back to "prove it is mathematically inferior" when I've already said my complaint has nothing to do with that I have no idea.
This. And if you're so keen on the math, why don't you show us the math that proves it is balanced with stuff the Fighter can do?
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5 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 9:04PM
#109
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Don't forget this is a PLAY-test guys... spirited discussion of numbers and mechanics is great, but getting a feel for how the classes work at higher levels while actually playing the game is the point.
If someone is playing a fighter and having fun, and doesn't feel overshadowed by the wizard at higher levels, than that's what matters. Give it a spin and come back in a few days and let us know your thoughts from the boots on the ground perspective...
One look at even reading the class, maneuvers, and spells section of this packet will instantly get anyone in my gaming group to refuse to play.
Agreed. This isn't even presentable to my gaming group.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 17, 2012 - 9:06PM
#110
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Date Joined:
Jan 14, 2012
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Bah.
It's yet another crappy 3E clone. If I wanted that, then I would just go play Crapfinder.
What an utter disappointment. The design has already taken the road of failure and they obviously ain't turning back.
I really hope D&D gets mothballed for good once this iteration fails.
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