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Switch to Forum Live View What happened to Essentials?
6 months ago  ::  Dec 17, 2012 - 12:36PM #11
Felorn
Date Joined: Sep 2, 2011
Posts: 420
4e could have been so much more if it had been tested and worked with properly. I do hope a Paizo-like company picks up the core system and all the broken pieces and puts them to good use.


“The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear.” - H. P. Lovecraft

Games I Play:
- D&D 4e
- D&D 3.5
- AD&D 2e
- Pathfinder
- Call of Cthulhu
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 17, 2012 - 6:43PM #12
DavidArgall
Date Joined: Dec 5, 2007
Posts: 1,592

Dec 17, 2012 -- 10:03AM, AbdulAlhazred wrote:

WotC released 10 SKUs all at one time under the Essentials line and stated at that time they would all remain in print and no more would ever be added.



     This is the sort of statement that is so obviously false it doesn't qualify as a lie.  If Essentials had been successful, there would have been large numbers of additional entries.  WOTC is a business, and not corcerned with the mystic number 10.  If #11 looked like it would sell well, it would have hit the stores no matter how much WOTC had said there would only be 10 entries.  Unfortunately it was a dud, and so any plans for additional volumes died.


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6 months ago  ::  Dec 17, 2012 - 9:33PM #13
hunterian7
Date Joined: Jul 23, 2008
Posts: 1,723

Dec 17, 2012 -- 9:54AM, Salla wrote:

Dec 14, 2012 -- 7:27AM, solomani wrote:

Was it always meant to be a limited product line




Yes.




Not a fan of Salla's posts but here goes...

The lonely answer yes is a bit misleading.

The Essentials adventures are a limited line in adventures except that you can run Madness of Gardmore Abbey after the adventure in the Monster Vault- sorta.  It's goes from red box level 1; DM kit levels 2-3; Monster Vault 4th. There's a gap at 5th level. Then Madness at Gardmore Abbey 6-10. So- you'd have to either run a 5th level adventure made up by you or try Madness at 5th.  Madness is created in the Essentiaks mindset so it runs smoothly with Essentials.

Also- Essentials is evergreen for now. So is not a limited in that sense. Once D&D Next is released bye bye essentials. 

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6 months ago  ::  Dec 17, 2012 - 11:32PM #14
Arcane_Guyver
Date Joined: Nov 13, 2004
Posts: 1,954

Dec 17, 2012 -- 6:43PM, DavidArgall wrote:

This is the sort of statement that is so obviously false it doesn't qualify as a lie.  If Essentials had been successful, there would have been large numbers of additional entries.



Well, it's true when you consider Essentials is the limited list of 'evergreen' products (Red Box, DM Kit, two player manuals, Monster Vault, Rules Compendium, three tile sets, and dice set). The splatbooks, adventures, and tile sets published afterwards were not technically part of that line. Not that it matters any longer, but I thought it was a decent - if ill-timed - plan for such an expansive game.

4e D&D is not a "Tabletop MMO." It is not Massively Multiplayer, and is usually not played Online. Come up with better descriptions of your complaints, cuz this one means jack ****.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 18, 2012 - 1:14AM #15
Jacktannery
Date Joined: Aug 26, 2007
Posts: 89

Dec 17, 2012 -- 9:33PM, hunterian7 wrote:

The Essentials adventures are a limited line in adventures except that you can run Madness of Gardmore Abbey after the adventure in the Monster Vault- sorta.  It's goes from red box level 1; DM kit levels 2-3; Monster Vault 4th. There's a gap at 5th level. Then Madness at Gardmore Abbey 6-10. So- you'd have to either run a 5th level adventure made up by you or try Madness at 5th.  Madness is created in the Essentiaks mindset so it runs smoothly with Essentials.




I'm not sure that this last sentance makes any sense. It sounds like you are implying Essentials is different to 4E. It's not. The Madness... adventure works great for either a group of characters made with 4E Core rules, Essential rules, or a mix of both. 

Inside the front cover of Madness... there is a little box that says: 

This adventure refers to other DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ®
Roleplaying Game books, abbreviated as follows.
DMK: Dungeon Masters Book (in the Dungeon Master's Kit ™ boxed set)
FK: Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms 
FL: Heroes of the Fallen Lands ™
MV: Monster Vault ™


Which implies that the adventure belongs to the Essentials game. However I also note that part of the reward for Valthrune's quest is that the wizard will perform a ritual on the PCs behalf for free, implying some use of pre-Essentials books (eg PH1). Other than these two tiny (irrelevent) features (which aren't even consistent) there is no distinction between an 'Essentials' adventure and a 4E adventure. 

As Hunterian pointed out the Essentials adventures are:
??? Twisting Halls (Starter Set?) (Not sure about this one) (lvl 1)
Reavers of Harkenwold (DM's Kit) (lvls 2-4)
Cairn of the Winter King (Monster Vault) (lvl 4)
-gap-
Madness at Gardmore Abbey (lvls 6-8 & maybe 10)

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6 months ago  ::  Dec 18, 2012 - 1:35AM #16
solomani
Date Joined: Mar 4, 2003
Posts: 135
This is the list I am going with the kids and wife.  Starting on Twisted Halls this weekend.

Level        Adventure                                    Source                        
Prequel      Solo Adventure (name?)                       Red Box Starter Set
1            Ghost Tower of the Witchlight Fens           Online Redemption Code
1            The Twisted Halls                            Red Box Starter Set

1            Kill the Messengers                          GenCon encounter        
2            Dungeon of the Ghost Tower                   Dungeon Issue 182
2            Sunderpeak Temple                            The Red Box Game Day Adventure
2(to 3)      Iron Circle (Reavers of Harkenwold)          DM Kit
3(to 4)      Die is Cast (Reavers of Harkenwold)          DM Kit
4            Cairn of the Winter King                     Monster Vault

Play it by ear after that if there is still any interest.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 18, 2012 - 6:30AM #17
cro1947
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 19
Is the Sunderpeak Temple adventure is available to download for free ?
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 18, 2012 - 6:47PM #18
AbdulAlhazred
Date Joined: Jan 9, 2009
Posts: 10,250

Dec 17, 2012 -- 11:32PM, Arcane_Guyver wrote:

Dec 17, 2012 -- 6:43PM, DavidArgall wrote:

This is the sort of statement that is so obviously false it doesn't qualify as a lie.  If Essentials had been successful, there would have been large numbers of additional entries.



Well, it's true when you consider Essentials is the limited list of 'evergreen' products (Red Box, DM Kit, two player manuals, Monster Vault, Rules Compendium, three tile sets, and dice set). The splatbooks, adventures, and tile sets published afterwards were not technically part of that line. Not that it matters any longer, but I thought it was a decent - if ill-timed - plan for such an expansive game.


That was the stated intention, just that it was a fixed 10 SKU product, compatible with 4e but stand-alone. The idea was that a book or toy store which would probably not have a person familiar with the product could put those 10 items on a stand, sell them, and keep it stocked. They'd have a complete line of a product that would be self-sufficient and because evergreen you'd never be stuck with overstock of some items and short others.

As for the "well, it is only capped at 10 SKUs because it failed", they said BEFORE they released ANY of Essentials it would never be added to. HoS, HotEC, and HotFW don't have the Essentials name on them and are obviously hardcovers, so clearly there's a bit of a distinction there. Obviously they might have continuted to release similar books if they'd wanted to, but they aren't evergreen and I'm sure if you had a reseller/distributor catalog they're listed as 4e SKUs, not Essentials ones.

Of course the whole "convenience of the book stores" kind of reasoning for Essentials WAS part of the problem. They were trying to solve a business problem more than trying to serve the customer bases needs. I can see why they did it, but it was still a mistake.

That is not dead which may eternal lie
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 18, 2012 - 8:37PM #19
hunterian7
Date Joined: Jul 23, 2008
Posts: 1,723

Dec 18, 2012 -- 1:14AM, Jacktannery wrote:

Dec 17, 2012 -- 9:33PM, hunterian7 wrote:

The Essentials adventures are a limited line in adventures except that you can run Madness of Gardmore Abbey after the adventure in the Monster Vault- sorta.  It's goes from red box level 1; DM kit levels 2-3; Monster Vault 4th. There's a gap at 5th level. Then Madness at Gardmore Abbey 6-10. So- you'd have to either run a 5th level adventure made up by you or try Madness at 5th.  Madness is created in the Essentiaks mindset so it runs smoothly with Essentials.




I'm not sure that this last sentance makes any sense. It sounds like you are implying Essentials is different to 4E. It's not. The Madness... adventure works great for either a group of characters made with 4E Core rules, Essential rules, or a mix of both. 

Inside the front cover of Madness... there is a little box that says: 

This adventure refers to other DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ®
Roleplaying Game books, abbreviated as follows.
DMK: Dungeon Masters Book (in the Dungeon Master's Kit ™ boxed set)
FK: Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms 
FL: Heroes of the Fallen Lands ™
MV: Monster Vault ™


Which implies that the adventure belongs to the Essentials game. However I also note that part of the reward for Valthrune's quest is that the wizard will perform a ritual on the PCs behalf for free, implying some use of pre-Essentials books (eg PH1). Other than these two tiny (irrelevent) features (which aren't even consistent) there is no distinction between an 'Essentials' adventure and a 4E adventure. 

As Hunterian pointed out the Essentials adventures are:
??? Twisting Halls (Starter Set?) (Not sure about this one) (lvl 1)
Reavers of Harkenwold (DM's Kit) (lvls 2-4)
Cairn of the Winter King (Monster Vault) (lvl 4)
-gap-
Madness at Gardmore Abbey (lvls 6-8 & maybe 10)




yeah- I meant that Madness at Gardmore Abbey followed the design philosophy of Essentials. It's fully compatible with the core books but it works great as a lead off from the adventure of the Monster Vault (Cairn of the Winter Dude).

I think you were reading too much in what I was saying and injected an edition war meaning that simply wasn't there.

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6 months ago  ::  Dec 18, 2012 - 9:57PM #20
DavidArgall
Date Joined: Dec 5, 2007
Posts: 1,592

"window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />As for the "well, it is only capped at 10 SKUs because it failed", they said BEFORE they released ANY of Essentials it would never be added to. HoS, HotEC, and HotFW don't have the Essentials name on them and are obviously hardcovers, so clearly there's a bit of a distinction there. Obviously they might have continuted to release similar books if they'd wanted to, but they aren't evergreen and I'm sure if you had a reseller/distributor catalog they're listed as 4e SKUs, not Essentials ones.



     Such "promises" are made to be broken.  Say they sell 100,000 Essentials items.  Now what?  They can insist on keeping their word and maybe sell 10,000 a year thereafter, or they can add an additional item each year or so, sell 10,000 copies of the new item and 10,000 of the old ones.  The choice is obvious.  The only reason not to make the 11th item is that the first 10 sold poorly.
     We look at books and movies, and we see sequels of the successful stories no matter what promises or statements were made.  [The classic case was a romance novel where the second banana died in the story, but a number of readers really liked him and wanted him as the lead in the next book.  The author protested "But he's dead!  I killed him in the big scene."  The publisher answered "So?"  The next book started out   "While recovering from his grievious wounds..."]
     Statements that there will only be X items in a series are meaningless.

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