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Switch to Forum Live View Ideas for Human racial bonuses
6 months ago  ::  Dec 14, 2012 - 7:19AM #1
fougerec
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 134
Dwarves get 5 bonuses +1 to a stat (Low Light, Resilience, Weapon Training, Stonecunning, Toughness/Armor Mastery)
Elves get 6 bonuses +1 to a stat (Low Light, Weapon Training, Keen Senses, Free Spirit, Trance, Cantrip/Wood Elf Grace)
Halflings get 4 bonuses +1 to a stat (Weapon Training, Lucky, Nimbleness, Naturally Stealth/Fearless)
Humans get +2 to one stat and +1 to everything else.  That's just bad design and lazy.

Working with of my players (who incidentally isn't playing a human but is thinking about it) we've worked up the following.


Humans
+1 to any one Stat (since classes give a bonus now as well, this should be plenty)
Pick one additional skill to be trained in.
Pick one additional 1st level feat.
Pick two weapons as "Cultural Weapons" and increase the damage dealt with them by 1 step.

This puts them at the bottom of the list (3 bonuses and +1 to a stat) BUT balances that out with versatility, which has long been the humans strong suit.  I also like that it easily allows for the creation of human cultures by simply making those choices for the player.

Example - Nomadic desert warriors - +1 to Con, Trained in Survival and Improved Initative and with the Scimitar and Javelin.


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6 months ago  ::  Dec 14, 2012 - 10:44AM #2
strider13x
Date Joined: Mar 29, 2012
Posts: 401
while I like the ability bonus humans current enjoy your presentation is fair as well. in a module a list of racial feats could be presented the may only be selected at character creation perhaps.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 14, 2012 - 2:54PM #3
Sword_of_Spirit
Date Joined: Mar 3, 2007
Posts: 286
The reason they aren't going to do something like that is that it is more complex than what they are going for. It is highly unlikely that humans will ever have more than one choice based on race.

If humans get a racial feature, it will most likely be a single racial feature that is equally valuable to all classes.

The biggest problem with the human racial bonuses is that it spits in the face of traditional lore about the relative ability scores of the races. It's downright offensive, and there aren't a lot of things that actually offend me in Next.

My suggestion is to provide non-humans with two +1s: one based on their race and one based on their subrace. Humans get two +1s assigned where they will, and a really nice racial feature.

It's important in order to preserve traditional lore that says dwarves have the most Con, elves the most Dex, etc. I'm thinking that an action point type of ability might be good for humans. The only problem with that is out-of-combat usefulness.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 14, 2012 - 9:49PM #4
Lord_Kyrion
Date Joined: Nov 21, 2012
Posts: 713
I think the cultural weapon bonus is too much. It pretty much makes humans automatically the best race for any class. Bonus feat and bonus skill is good enough to balance racial weapon training. And I don't believe they should necessarily have subraces. They're supposed to be a neutral race that can be good at any class but is never the best at it. At least, that's why I like playing them.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 14, 2012 - 10:50PM #5
Gr8DM81
Date Joined: Jul 16, 2011
Posts: 1
I applaud the Next crew for trying to fix humans after several blown endeavors; and while I don't think they've nailed it yet, I definitely think they are on the right track.

Obviously level caps for dwaves and elves aren't going to make a comeback; However, I never saw the logic behind humans getting extra skills and feats at level one. The fluff of the matter implies that somehow a 15 year old farm boy has aquired more skills and has learned more tricks than a 120 year old high elf. 

I am currently in favor of the ability bonuses as racial traits because Humans are better all-around racial specimens then the demi-humans. I am likely to alter my opinion with the proposal of a racial trait that doesn't imply superior skill and experience over the longer lived races.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 14, 2012 - 11:18PM #6
Jenks
Date Joined: Apr 4, 2008
Posts: 2,493
I could handle a change in the human racials, but going back to the default skill and feat is boring, boring, boring :P
My two copper.



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5 months ago  ::  Dec 16, 2012 - 8:54AM #7
elecgraystone
Date Joined: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 1,391

Dec 14, 2012 -- 11:18PM, Jenks wrote:

I could handle a change in the human racials, but going back to the default skill and feat is boring, boring, boring :P


It's a start at least. Well, anything is better than they have now...

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 16, 2012 - 9:53AM #8
Khadrin
Date Joined: Jul 19, 2012
Posts: 38
There shoudln't be physical racial traits bonus for human as an average. If compared to the average dwarf, the average human is not tougher or even as tough as a dwarf, the same goes for str and dexterity. The versatility, ability to learn ot whatever you want to call what makes human different is not something physical so I think that human shouldn't gain in these stats. They shouldn't gain even in wisdom as for me wisdom comes with time and I have a problem with a human being wiser at 15yo than a 70yo dwarf or a 120yo elf. What could be done is improve their learning rate. A dwarf or an elf could improve a skill every 3 levels and a human every 2 levels. Or even skill learning cost could be a bit cheaper for humans. Would it make them overpowered or underpowered ? I do not know, maybe Cyber Dave and other math specialists can tell us.
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 16, 2012 - 1:51PM #9
Qmark
  • vitriol and virtue
Date Joined: May 18, 2002
Posts: 16,486

Dec 16, 2012 -- 9:53AM, Khadrin wrote:

A dwarf or an elf could improve a skill every 3 levels and a human every 2 levels.


It works, i guess.
The obvious downsides are it makes skills essentially mandatory, and there may be a problem with runaway at high levels.

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 17, 2012 - 6:56AM #10
fougerec
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 134

Dec 14, 2012 -- 11:18PM, Jenks wrote:

I could handle a change in the human racials, but going back to the default skill and feat is boring, boring, boring :P




I feel it's significantly better than a bunch of stat bonuses, though still not ideal.

With a modular design, there's no reason we can't have "basic" racial stats and "advanced" racial stats.  Maybe save "sub-races" or "cultures" for an advanced racial module.

So, for example you could have the "Elf" in the basic book but the racial/cultural module could include bonuses for Wild, Wood, Gray, High, Drow, Eladrin, Snow Elves, Painted Elves, Rockseer Elves and any other subset of elf that's seen print.








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