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6 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 3:32PM
#11
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Tell me Salla, if I am playing Gurps, and someone decided to make a character only using GURPS Lite, are they playing the same game?
I think you'll find GURPS players would answer no.
I'm unfamiliar with GURPS (played it once, over twenty years ago), so can't comment.
I *can* say, through experience, that there are zero compatibility issues between 4e characters and Essentials characters, particularly since you can 'mix and match', with 'classic' 4e characters taking utility powers and feats from the E-books and E-characters taking utilities and feats from classic 4e books. Plus, E-characters can take 4e paragon paths and epic destinies. A slayer IS a Fighter, after all.
Sorry, but your stance has absolutely zero basis in reality.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 3:34PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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I *can* say, through experience, that there are zero compatibility issues between 4e characters and Essentials characters, particularly since you can 'mix and match', with 'classic' 4e characters taking utility powers and feats from the E-books and E-characters taking utilities and feats from classic 4e books. Plus, E-characters can take 4e paragon paths and epic destinies. A slayer IS a Fighter, after all.
Sorry, but your stance has absolutely zero basis in reality.
+1 (See my edit in the post above)
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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6 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 5:12PM
#13
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I am sorry I brought it up--I was trying to provide a helpful warning about a potential complication to someone who might not have been aware of the argument (account was less than 2 weeks old at the time of OP's posting). Can we please NOT have this thread degenerate into (yet another) 4e vs Essentials battle.
People disagree. Both sides have their arguments. the grounds have been trampled to death more times than I care to count. Let's be done with it already.
I'm with the "Similar, but different" crowd. If you want to say they're the same, Fine. I'll disagree with you and we probably won't ever play in the same game, so does it really matter?
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6 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 5:13PM
#14
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Aye, Salla is right by any reasonable interpretation.
So, the upshot is that Heroes of Shadow has some 'Essentials-like' classes in it, and it happens that it provides a Necromancer as a Mage school, so you'd need to HotFL to be one, technically. OTOH of course all that joining the school does is basically get you a few bonuses, useful but you can still use the powers even if you don't have HotFL and play an arcanist (PHB1 Wizard). The other 'essentials like' stuff is pretty much all usable regardless of what books you have, except for warpriest and hexblade material, but there's not much of that.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
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6 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 5:22PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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I am sorry I brought it up--I was trying to provide a helpful warning about a potential complication to someone who might not have been aware of the argument (account was less than 2 weeks old at the time of OP's posting). Can we please NOT have this thread degenerate into (yet another) 4e vs Essentials battle.
People disagree. Both sides have their arguments. the grounds have been trampled to death more times than I care to count. Let's be done with it already.
I'm with the "Similar, but different" crowd. If you want to say they're the same, Fine. I'll disagree with you and we probably won't ever play in the same game, so does it really matter?
It does if people are giving new players the incorrect answer that Essentials and Pre-essentials characters can't mix in the same game.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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6 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 5:23PM
#16
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Well, as an unreasonable person, I will point out one flaw: without HoS, you have very few Necrotic spells.
PH 1:
1 Wizard lvl 1 encounter spell has the Necrotic keyword.
0 lvl 2
0 lvl 3
0 lvl 5
0 lvl 6
0 lvl 7
0 lvl 9
0 lvl 10
Arcane Power:
0 Necrotic spells below lvl10, and probably not many beyond.
So, without HoS, there is no substantive way to build a necromancer without just reflavoring the text.
Now, there are feats that let you add a keyword, but you have to take the feat for EACH power. Rediculous and unworkable.
You may say my answer is incorrect. I say yours is. The point is that there is a potential for conflict. It is one thing on the boards where you can ignore the other person. In the gaming group, if two players, or worse: a player and the DM, disagree, it can ruin not only a single game session, but the entire game group. (Don't laugh: I've seen it happen).
(Had more, but never mind, rant was counter productive)
Again, please let us avoid yet another rehash of an old argument
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Bow down, my subjects, for I am your master! Yesss.....
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For some reason, none of my friends were surprised by this...
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6 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 5:29PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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Well, as an unreasonable person, I will point out one flaw: without HoS, you have very few Necrotic spells.
PH 1:
1 Wizard lvl 1 encounter spell has the Necrotic keyword.
0 lvl 2
0 lvl 3
0 lvl 5
0 lvl 6
0 lvl 7
0 lvl 9
0 lvl 10
Arcane Power:
0 Necrotic spells below lvl10, and probably not many beyond.
So, without HoS, there is no substantive way to build a necromancer without just reflavoring the text.
Now, there are feats that let you add a keyword, but you have to take the feat for EACH power. Rediculous and unworkable.
Dread Presence E1
Ray of Enfeeblement E1
Grim Shadow E3
Grasp of the Grave D5
Animate Dead D9
Deathsmoke D9
Those are all necrotic and all not from HoS. What are you talking about precisely? Yeah there aren't tons of options, but look how few acid attacks there are as well.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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6 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 5:32PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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You may say my answer is incorrect. I say yours is. The point is that there is a potential for conflict. It is one thing on the boards where you can ignore the other person. In the gaming group, if two players, or worse: a player and the DM, disagree, it can ruin not only a single game session, but the entire game group. (Don't laugh: I've seen it happen).
(Had more, but never mind, rant was counter productive)
Again, please let us avoid yet another rehash of an old argument
The argument isn't which is better, or should you mix them in every game, but are they compatible to play together. The answer to that question is yes. It is perfectly mechanically reasonable to sit an Echaracter and an Ocharacter at the same table and tally forth.
Now one will have less options than the other, but that might work in the situation and it might not. The dynamics of it aren't the question, but whether you can mechanically have them side by side. The answer to that is "yes you can".
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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6 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 5:36PM
#19
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..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />You may say my answer is incorrect. I say yours is. The point is that there is a potential for conflict.
No, the point is, you are objectively wrong. There is no argument, because you have zero facts to support your position.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 5:39PM
#20
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My point, (sorry, I thought I was being clear) was that without HoS, there are very few necrotic spells.
I happen to have the books right by my computer, so I went through what was in PH1 and Arcane Power.
If you are building a necromancer, you are going to have incredibly few actually necrotic spells without HoS.
To the point where there is no mechanical or practical benefit in calling yourself a necromancer, beyond pure fluff. Even your expanded list leaves gaps (like an at-will).
HoS provides Cantrips, several At-wills, and spells for almost every level.
And people argue about it. As already seen in this thread. If you are new to the system, you might not be aware that there is an argument. THAT WAS MY POINT. I was attempting to provide a warning. Now can we PLEASE (for the 3rd time) drop it?
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Bow down, my subjects, for I am your master! Yesss.....
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For some reason, none of my friends were surprised by this...
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