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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 3:27PM
#41
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That half the threads about DDN complain the wizard is now too powerful, and half complain the wizard is now too weak, makes me think they got it exactly right.
I'm actually quite fine with how the Wizard was shaping up in this packet. Though the improvements coming are welcome, it was a pretty good balance this time.
Power-level-wise? Sure. But actual ability-wise? The Wizard feels like a mess in this packet, but really just because the Traditions feel like a mess at the moment. Great idea, it just needs work.
But hey, that's what the playtest is for.
The only time I ever enjoyed the wizard was in 4e. The reason might surprise you though. It was mostly because the wizard at-wills were so much fun. So fun in fact that I would have gladly traded away my daily spells for more at-wills. No class in 4e had the breadth of magical options as the wizard. Between at will cantrips and some of the most unique at will powers in the game the wizard finally felt magical.
5e wizard feels meh at best compared to that.
Good news! At wills are going back to being able to choose them. As well, they will scale in the next packet. So, you might just like what you see 
Bad news...
The scope and capability of at-wills has been dramatically reduced in 5e as compared to 4e. Look at the list of 4e wizard at wills, they do cool and interesting things. 5e At-will burning hands, magic missle, or ray of frost are still "boring" compared to the at-will capabilities of the 4e wizard.
Really? Then we have completely different senses of what makes an interesting spell. how is 2d4+int damage magic missile any more interesting than a ray of frost in 5e? Because it deals more damage? How is scorching burst more interesting than burning hands? Because it has more range? The mage hand, presitidgitation, and light are virtually identical, plus this time we get minor illusion (one of the coolest level 0 spells ive ever seen), as well as disguse self, mage armor, and more. I don't see how 4e at wills are any more engaging then what we have in 5e.
My two copper.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 3:28PM
#42
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Perosnal prefence Lawolf. The team did listen though and the wizard was one of those classes that is being tweaked due to concerns raised about it.
Oh I agree and am glad that they are taking feedback to heart. I know that I will not enjoy playing the 5e wizard, but maybe another 5e caster will come along that I find enjoyable.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 3:38PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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Put it this way. I like vancian but did not like this packets wizard. Or the rogue, good job on the cleric thoguh and fighter to a lesser extent.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 3:41PM
#44
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That half the threads about DDN complain the wizard is now too powerful, and half complain the wizard is now too weak, makes me think they got it exactly right.
I'm actually quite fine with how the Wizard was shaping up in this packet. Though the improvements coming are welcome, it was a pretty good balance this time.
Power-level-wise? Sure. But actual ability-wise? The Wizard feels like a mess in this packet, but really just because the Traditions feel like a mess at the moment. Great idea, it just needs work.
But hey, that's what the playtest is for.
The only time I ever enjoyed the wizard was in 4e. The reason might surprise you though. It was mostly because the wizard at-wills were so much fun. So fun in fact that I would have gladly traded away my daily spells for more at-wills. No class in 4e had the breadth of magical options as the wizard. Between at will cantrips and some of the most unique at will powers in the game the wizard finally felt magical.
5e wizard feels meh at best compared to that.
Good news! At wills are going back to being able to choose them. As well, they will scale in the next packet. So, you might just like what you see
Bad news...
The scope and capability of at-wills has been dramatically reduced in 5e as compared to 4e. Look at the list of 4e wizard at wills, they do cool and interesting things. 5e At-will burning hands, magic missle, or ray of frost are still "boring" compared to the at-will capabilities of the 4e wizard.
Really? Then we have completely different senses of what makes an interesting spell. how is 2d4+int damage magic missile any more interesting than a ray of frost in 5e? Because it deals more damage? How is scorching burst more interesting than burning hands? Because it has more range? The mage hand, presitidgitation, and light are virtually identical, plus this time we get minor illusion (one of the coolest level 0 spells ive ever seen), as well as disguse self, mage armor, and more. I don't see how 4e at wills are any more engaging then what we have in 5e.
Ooh, you went there. Glad you did though.
Storm Pillar: Summons a pillar of lightning that zaps enemies who move next to it
Flame Arrow: Enchant your allies ranged weapons to do additional fire damage
Howling Wall: Summon a wall of wind to hinder your foes movements
Beguiling Strands: Blast a group of enemies for minor damage and making them see visions causing them to stumble away from you
Freezing Burst: Blast a group of enemies and with frozen winds that deals damage and sends your enemies flying in all directions
Hypnotism: Make the target attack one of its allies or move the target to a short distance
Beast Switch: Touch a foe turning it into a small woodland animal who scurries a short distance away from you
Cloud of Daggers: Blast a creature with magical force and make a zone of whirling magical daggers that harms enemies who approach
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 3:46PM
#45
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Of which only 1 of those spells came from core material, which is what I was comparing. Splat will be splat. You can't compare an edition in it's infancy to a fully developed edition with tons of splat. That's just a completely one-sided comparison.
That's like saying "I like Mists of Pandaria WoW more than Vanilla because there's much more to do." Of COURSE there is because it had 7 years to develop :P
If you are going to include splat, come back to me in 3-4 years when 5e has as much splat under its belt to make a fair comparison.
My two copper.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 4:12PM
#46
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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haha...good point.
Several books, errata, and an online resource vs. playtest material...hmmm
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 4:24PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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What gets me, is (presumably) how may people hold the OP's opinion. Its fascinating, really.
The funny thing is how many people are equally convinced it's jut regurgitated 4e, or thinly vieled AD&D. They're always the ones angry about it, too. 5e is trying very hard to capture the feel and the best bits of every edition, but its critics latch on to that resemblance to whichever ed they /hate/. Doesn't bode well for the all-things-to-all-D&Ders idea, sadly.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 4:26PM
#48
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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My theory is that MasterBedlam is Lokiare... 
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 4:29PM
#49
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What gets me, is (presumably) how may people hold the OP's opinion. Its fascinating, really.
The funny thing is how many people are equally convinced it's jut regurgitated 4e, or thinly vieled AD&D. They're always the ones angry about it, too. 5e is trying very hard to capture the feel and the best bits of every edition, but its critics latch on to that resemblance to whichever ed they /hate/. Doesn't bode well for the all-things-to-all-D&Ders idea, sadly.
Aye. I compare how a large portion of the community views D&DN as how someone comming from another country might view the USA. We are a melting pot and you can pretty much find influences, people, and culture from all around the world. But if you are coming from, say, India, you should expect that there will be aspects of India, and that you will be able to find many Indian customs and ideals here. But it will not be India. You have to accept the other cultures of the USA along with your own.
I know it's a wierd example, but it's seemed to help a few people understand.
My two copper.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 4:40PM
#50
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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What gets me, is (presumably) how may people hold the OP's opinion. Its fascinating, really.
The funny thing is how many people are equally convinced it's jut regurgitated 4e, or thinly vieled AD&D. They're always the ones angry about it, too. 5e is trying very hard to capture the feel and the best bits of every edition, but its critics latch on to that resemblance to whichever ed they /hate/. Doesn't bode well for the all-things-to-all-D&Ders idea, sadly.
Ignore the forums, ts the casuals that will determine D&Ds fate.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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